D&D (2024) If there are no half-elves or half-orcs will there be Tieflings (half fiends)?

[Horwath]

personally i thought too many classes got full martial proficiency in 5e, or at least 'proficiency in the one martial weapon they'd ever really want to use in the first place'

personally I would scrape both armor and weapon proficiency categories.
We now have mastery for martials, so simple/martial weapon proficiency is not needed.
And with 5E weapons table it has no logic from the start.

Mastery, Extra attack(s), fighting styles, attack riders, investment in STR and/or DEX is enough to separate martial from nonmartial character.

heavy armors introduced min STR for some armors.
Just make that across the board for all armors and you do not need armor proficiency.
You can take (heavy) armor mastery feat if you want to be good at using armor.

 

[CreamCloud0]

i think half the issue here in this discussion is all the current official 'half-species' are all half human, which while humans are great they are mechanically indistinct.
if i want a half-dragonborn/elf that's mostly elven with trance and fey ancestry to resist sleep and charm but has a breathweapon, how do i achieve that, more specifically, how do i achieve that only using the choices and budget provided by species options, to achieve these species traits, of which a 1st level feat would only be accounted for when looked at as part of the package of custom lineage, as the other 1st level feat is available to all adventurers and thus not part of their species traits.

 

[Remathilis]

i think half the issue here is the current 'half-species' are all half human, which while humans are great are mechanically indistinct.
if i want a half-elf/dragonborn that's mostly elven with trance and fey ancestry resist sleep and charm but has a breathweapon, how do i achieve that, more specifically, how do i achieve that only using the choices and budget provided by species options, to achieve these species traits, of which a 1st level feat would only be accounted for when looked at as part of the package of custom lineage, as the other 1st level feat is available to all adventurers and thus not part of their species traits.

The thing is I don't think D&D is designed for that level of granular customization. Is trance and fey ancestry equivalent to damage resistance and limited wings? Or are breath weapons equivalent to lineage magic? What if I want a breath weapon AND elf magic but am willing to sacrifice fey ancestry, trance and damage resistance for it?

An option that might work could be "raised among" feats, like the giants feats in Bigby. It grants some minor elements of a species (on par with a level 1 feat) and you could decide if that is because you're a half-something by blood or you were exposed to by being raised in a community of that race. (Learning elf magic or dwarven crafting or Gith psionics).

Of course, that option would need dozens of feats even excluding some (like raised among the aasimar) and it would still assume you have the majority traits of one species rather than a blend, but again, I don't see a method that doesn't turn into an ala carte system of picking Good Stuff or exists as a curated list of acceptable pairings.

 

[Horwath]

The thing is I don't think D&D is designed for that level of granular customization. Is trance and fey ancestry equivalent to damage resistance and limited wings? Or are breath weapons equivalent to lineage magic? What if I want a breath weapon AND elf magic but am willing to sacrifice fey ancestry, trance and damage resistance for it?

An option that might work could be "raised among" feats, like the giants feats in Bigby. It grants some minor elements of a species (on par with a level 1 feat) and you could decide if that is because you're a half-something by blood or you were exposed to by being raised in a community of that race. (Learning elf magic or dwarven crafting or Gith psionics).

Of course, that option would need dozens of feats even excluding some (like raised among the aasimar) and it would still assume you have the majority traits of one species rather than a blend, but again, I don't see a method that doesn't turn into an ala carte system of picking Good Stuff or exists as a curated list of acceptable pairings.

a race(lineage) should give you 6 or 7 traits to pick from.
Premade race could help new players with the choice.

a class should give you 10 starting proficiencies that you can put into armor categories, martial weapons, cantrips, skills and saves.

why all fighters need to have heavy armor proficieny?
what if you are raised in a jungle or island archipelago where those armors are unheard of and completely impractical?

 

[Remathilis]

a race(lineage) should give you 6 or 7 traits to pick from.
Premade race could help new players with the choice.

a class should give you 10 starting proficiencies that you can put into armor categories, martial weapons, cantrips, skills and saves.

why all fighters need to have heavy armor proficieny?
what if you are raised in a jungle or island archipelago where those armors are unheard of and completely impractical?

OH! You want Player's Options: Skills & Powers!

Yeah, that's not going to happen. Not in 2024 at least. Without getting into how badly broken PO was (I was there), it would require an absolute rewrite of classes, species, etc. That's not coming from anything resembling 5e.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I'd rather not turn every playable species into just a grab bag of traits. Defeats the point of having a choice of species at all if it's just mix and match.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I'd rather not turn every playable species into just a grab bag of traits. Defeats the point of having a choice of species at all if it's just mix and match.

when you say grabbag which do you mean more like?
'point buy of species traits'
'pick your elf's trait 2 from darkvision, trance, perception, a cantrip or elf weapon profs'
or just 'treating the species traits as a bonus statblock of features for your character'?

edit: or being able to swap out between species traits for half-species

 

[Remathilis]

when you say grabbag which do you mean more like?
'point buy of species traits'
'pick your elf's trait 2 from darkvision, trance, perception, a cantrip or elf weapon profs'
or just 'treating the species traits as a bonus statblock of features for your character'?

edit: or being able to swap out between species traits for half-species

Each has its problems. My biggest concern though is that if any manner of mix-and-match is potentially better than picking a single species, then most players will opt for mixed species. Being a character with two lineages should be a choice made for role-playing, not for eeking out the best mechanical benefit. (For what its worth, I feel the same about multiclassing, but at least most that has the knock-on effect of slowing your progress to higher level abilities).

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I reckon the method to make most people happy while still being simple, is to keep the playtest half species rules....

But then remake half-elf and half-orc into dedicated species with their own species names and abilities, and assume the mixing happened a long way back.

Then a person wanting a half-elf or half-orc can either use the default mixed species rules, or use one of those two species.

 

[Clint_L]

I reckon the method to make most people happy while still being simple, is to keep the playtest half species rules....

But then remake half-elf and half-orc into dedicated species with their own species names and abilities, and assume the mixing happened a long way back.

Then a person wanting a half-elf or half-orc can either use the default mixed species rules, or use one of those two species.

Yes to the former, no to the latter. The 2014 versions still exist, and can be used. If on DnDBeyond, just toggle them on.