D&D (2024) If there are no half-elves or half-orcs will there be Tieflings (half fiends)?

[Remathilis]

Having seen how much they have backtracked on classes to 2014, I do wonder if we might not get some type of half-elf and half-orc after all...

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Having seen how much they have backtracked on classes to 2014, I do wonder if we might not get some type of half-elf and half-orc after all...

I'll be mad if they revert the changes to humans. The 5e human is absurdly boring and featureless, and the playtest actually went some way to fixing that.

 

[Hussar]

Didn't work last time.

This thread itself is a testament to how well that's going.

A lot more time and attention to changing the culture needs to go into making this an enduring concept.

Yup. Two people having a problem and everyone else providing solutions.

Pretty much how all the problems go.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Heh... I've kind of felt that it's not because of removing half-elves and half-orcs as specific species write-ups would be the reason to remove tieflings, aasimar and genasi... but rather the existence of the Sorcerer class that should do it.

Almost every Sorcerer subclass is about having some magical being in your family's ancestry or someone way back when being infused with magic from some source. Which is pretty much how tieflings, aasimar, and genasi come about. So why those three are species and yet divine souls, clockwork souls, storm sorcerers, and those with draconic blood only get to be one specific class is kind of meh to me. The tiefling, aasimar, and genasi "Planetouched" should by rights be Sorcerer subclasses too and not species at all.

Quite frankly, this is one of the main reasons why I don't like the Sorcerer class. It's wishy-washy to me and most of its subclasses should probably have just been species to begin with.* The only subclass I like for it is the Wild Mage, because if the Sorcerer is the only spellcasting class that gets to avoid having a specific flavor or story and can be just the blank-slate "I have magic!" option for players... I think being unable to completely control said magic is the price you should pay to get that openness. Having a generic and flavorless spellcaster class can be fine (and I agree with those others who have said the Sorcerer should probably get the same option to select which spell list they want to use like they gave to the Bard)... but you need a slight bad to go with the good in my opinion. Plus then remove the 'Planetouched' as a species option and just make them Sorcerer subclasses.

*Unpopular opinion that I have no illusions will be completely ignored by any powers that be.

Thematically I completely agree with you. An aasimar and a divine soul sorcerer seem to be identical. Both people who got divine power in their blood from (insert plot reason here). Same with anything else which can be a planetouched or sorcerer bloodline.

Mechanically, I understand why they're separate. If a person wants a divine theme and abilities while not playing a sorcerer, then picking aasimar is a great way to go. Maybe aasimar is a bad example here, as there is a divine themed subclass for almost every class. But for things like elemental themes, you're SooL for most classes.

 

[Corinnguard]

But for things like elemental themes, you're SooL for most classes.

Maybe? While there aren't any official subclasses that have an elemental theme about them, there is always the homebrewed stuff in places like D&D Wiki. And if you can't find any, you could always tweak a diving themed subclass into an elemental one or brew some of your own.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Maybe? While there aren't any official subclasses that have an elemental theme about them, there is always the homebrewed stuff in places like D&D Wiki. And if you can't find any, you could always tweak a diving themed subclass into an elemental one or brew some of your own.

While I'm lucky and my DM loves mild to moderate homebrew (line is drawn at full classes), many players aren't so lucky. If you're a player in a group which plays RAW, that's not going to be an option for you.

 

[Corinnguard]

While I'm lucky and my DM loves mild to moderate homebrew (line is drawn at full classes), many players aren't so lucky. If you're a player in a group which plays RAW, that's not going to be an option for you.

I know what you mean. During my very first time at playing 5e, I found myself wanting to playing the Fighter (Scout, variant) that's on D&D Wiki. My DM was wary about anyone picking up a homebrewed subclass. But he allowed me to use only after everyone else looked at it themselves and felt that the subclass wasn't too OP (it helped that at least two of my fellow players were familiar with RAW as well as the DM was). I got to play the subclass all the way to the end of the adventure (Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus).

 

[ChameleonX]

The solution to Half-Elves and Half-Orcs is to just give them an actual name and remove the "Half."

I know Half-Elves in Eberron have a specific name for their people, so it's not without precedent.

I'm also sure that SOMEWHERE in the 50ish years of D&D lore, they've mentioned a name for the Half-Orc race in Orcish, or something.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

The solution to Half-Elves and Half-Orcs is to just give them an actual name and remove the "Half."

I know Half-Elves in Eberron have a specific name for their people, so it's not without precedent.

I'm also sure that SOMEWHERE in the 50ish years of D&D lore, they've mentioned a name for the Half-Orc race in Orcish, or something.

Eberron also has the term Jhorgun'taal for half-orcs, so by all means, ditch the term "half-X", if that's all that is required. I have no issue with that.

I just don't like losing access to options I used to have (I know the '14 half-elf/orc will technically still be available, but it's clear they're being deprecated and have no expectation of being brought forward if/when we actually get a 6e), don't think the proposed subsystem replacing those is fit for its stated purpose (everyone just plays a full-X, mixed ancestry is a cosmetic choice, and if you want any more than that you have to devote your other mechanical decisions to making up the difference or go outside the core system), and have concerns about the downstream lore implications of "half-elves/orcs" being deemphasized as distinct player options on settings like Eberron that make prominent use of them (what happens to the Dragonmarked Houses Lyrandar, Medani, and Tharashk and especially the more general populations of Khoravar and Jhorgun'taal in Eberron the next time WotC decides to revisit the setting?).

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Eberron also has the term Jhorgun'taal for half-orcs, so by all means, ditch the term "half-X", if that's all that is required. I have no issue with that.

I just don't like losing access to options I used to have (I know the '14 half-elf/orc will technically still be available, but it's clear they're being deprecated and have no expectation of being brought forward if/when we actually get a 6e), don't think the proposed subsystem replacing those is fit for its stated purpose (everyone just plays a full-X, mixed ancestry is a cosmetic choice, and if you want any more than that you have to devote your other mechanical decisions to making up the difference or go outside the core system), and have concerns about the downstream lore implications of "half-elves/orcs" being deemphasized as distinct player options on settings like Eberron that make prominent use of them (what happens to Dragonmarked Houses Lyrandar, Medani, and Tharashk, and especially the more general populations of Khoravar and Jhorgun'taal, the next time WotC decides to revisit the setting?).

Considering the Eberron creator is stepping away from Eberron and DnD, I suspect the answer to that question is simply that Eberron will not appear again going forwards.

Similar to Dark Sun, WotC may just decide that the combination of themes they no longer agree with, a red-headed step child of a class they hate supporting, and the original creator leaving is enough for them shelve the setting for good.