D&D (2024) If there are no half-elves or half-orcs will there be Tieflings (half fiends)?

Yaarel

He Mage
In general, I agree with the OP, players need a way to mechanically represent a character who comes from an ancestry of more than one species.

In specific, I disagree about the "Half-Elf". In my eyes there is zero information loss, since it was little more than high-Charisma Human with Darkvision. If the player cares about Darkvision, then pick the Elf stats, and if not, pick the Human stats, but in either case make sure to choose Abilities and Background that feel appropriate to the character concept. The character concept that the "Half-Elf" was continues fully as a "Human-Elf".


Meanwhile the Human feat choice can hypothetically select a feat that grants Darkvision. In my eyes, Darkvision is merely worth a cantrip, albeit among the best cantrips. The design space of a "level 0" feat (representing something that existed before the character ever gained a level in a class) can grant Darkvision plus an other cantrip to represent a Human having a High Elf among ones ancestors.


With regard to mixing traits from diverse ancestors, "Species Feats" are the game design solution.

• Every officially playable species now has a design space of about 1½ feats.
• Likewise a level-0 Background Feat is worth about a ½ feat.

Normally, the Background Feat is strictly cultural and learned while growing up. However, in the case of the Human Species Feat choice, it could be used to select a Species Feat from one of the other Species to represent a nonhuman parentage.

In other words, when a player creates a character, the player can choose three Species Feats to define the character concept. Each Species Feat is worth about a ½ feat. But a few unusually powerful ones are worth about a full feat, thus count as a choice of two Species Feats if selected. Every species has its own list of Species Feats to choose from. When organizing the earlier versions of D&D Elves into separate feats, there are a number of Elf Species Feats that a player can choose from when building an Elf character. There even turn out to be a number of Human Species Feats to choose from when building a Human character − and these Human feats are pretty good! Finally, when creating a character deriving from multiple species, the player can choose their Species Feats from the lists of more than one species.

An example of what this design approach looks where all traits organize into Species Feats to choose from, is here in this thread: to mix Multi-Species Traits.


Thus with regard to the Original Post, to build a Human-Elf character select three feats from both the Human list and the Elf list. Some of the Elf Species Feats pertain to a specific elven adaptation, such as High magical ancestry, Wood magical ancestry, Udadrow magical ancestry, Sea magical ancestry, or whatever feat or feats make sense for the character concept.
 
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Horwath

Legend
Elf/Dragonborn.

Use high elf as a base. Reskin cantrip as breath weapon.

Done.

Next?
Hmm.

Here's a try:

Draconic breath: Action or one attack from your Attack action
DC: 8+prof bonus+ highest of con/int/wis/cha
Dex save

15ft cone or 30ft line

1d6 damage(pick from Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning)
half damage on successful save
5th level increase damage to 2d6
11th, increase damage to 3d6
17th, increase damage to 4d6
 

Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
The problem with Half-elves and Half-orcs, is that the half- is built into the name itself.

For Half-orc, I think replacing with Orc works just fine. "Orc" refers to anyone with Orcish features, including Half-orc/half-humans and Half-orc/half-hobgoblins, etc.

For Half-elf, I think it may be worth revisiting the Tuathan from 4e's Heroes of the Feywild. The Heroic Theme was originally supposed to be a brand new species introduced in that game, a sort of Númenórean or High Men or Part-Fey Human or Descendant of Half-elves person. I think the idea of "Half-elves breed true and create more Half-elves" - where they might not mix into human or elf communities but form their own Half-elf communities - is a major trope of the species that differs them from Half-orcs. We're missing that trope from the species list, and maybe Tuathan would bring that back, as a magical melange species.
 

Hussar

Legend
Hmm.

Here's a try:

Draconic breath: Action or one attack from your Attack action
DC: 8+prof bonus+ highest of con/int/wis/cha
Dex save

15ft cone or 30ft line

1d6 damage(pick from Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning)
half damage on successful save
5th level increase damage to 2d6
11th, increase damage to 3d6
17th, increase damage to 4d6

I’m sorry, but how is that not a cantrip? Which you get with the elf packaged.

Why reinvent the wheel?

The question was how to create a half Dragonborn half elf.

Well, it turns out that it is surprisingly easy to do so with existing mechanics.

So far every example that gets brought up can be done just by using what’s there. I’m really struggling to see why we need a giant set of rules to do what we can do right now.
 

CreamCloud0

One day, I hope to actually play DnD.
I’m sorry, but how is that not a cantrip? Which you get with the elf packaged.

Why reinvent the wheel?

The question was how to create a half Dragonborn half elf.

Well, it turns out that it is surprisingly easy to do so with existing mechanics.

So far every example that gets brought up can be done just by using what’s there. I’m really struggling to see why we need a giant set of rules to do what we can do right now.
because first of all that's not an existing cantrip so you can't take it, and you can't make your own cantrips in the rules so it's existence rides entirely on GM fiat to have which is not a good basis for standard character build options, and you couldn't take that 'breathweapon cantrip' with any other species than high elf (or maybe ones with access to species feat for magic initiate?) so it wouldn't work for a dragonborn-cross-dwarf/halfling/tiefling/orc/assimar/any other given half-species.
 

Hussar

Legend
Really? Telling the dm that your fire bolt cantrip shoots fire from your mouth is an issue?

I’ve already done dwarf/Dragonborn. So lots do Dragonborn/halfling.

(Presuming you don’t just play a kobold :) )

Size small. Scaley. Horns. Check.

Now here you either get lucky or a breath weapon, true. But considering both are pretty powerful, you were never getting both anyway. So it comes down to which do you want? A small Dragonborn or a scaley halfling. Stout halfling gives you poison resistance so that’s pretty dragoney.

Your bonus first level feat is magic initiate and poof you have a breath weapon.

Again, really not much of an issue.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
Really? Telling the dm that your fire bolt cantrip shoots fire from your mouth is an issue?
One would think that, wouldn't you?

But yeah. Some DMs are hard against reskinning, often because they think you're trying to get some sort of advantage by making choices for your character.
 

Hussar

Legend
One would think that, wouldn't you?

But yeah. Some DMs are hard against reskinning, often because they think you're trying to get some sort of advantage by making choices for your character.
Then wouldn't the solution be to add in some advice in the DMG or PHB that gives blessing to reskinning? Considering that the entire half-race thing is entirely reskinning, I'm thinking that this is perhaps less of an issue for tables than is being made out to be.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
Then wouldn't the solution be to add in some advice in the DMG or PHB that gives blessing to reskinning?
Didn't work last time.
Considering that the entire half-race thing is entirely reskinning, I'm thinking that this is perhaps less of an issue for tables than is being made out to be.
This thread itself is a testament to how well that's going.

A lot more time and attention to changing the culture needs to go into making this an enduring concept.
 

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