My view is that for the most part all the adventurers have been killed and looted. Adventures that are successful are as rare as hen's teeth.
-
NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
If there are other adventuring parties, why haven't the low level dungeons all been looted?
- Thread starter Doug McCrae
- Start date
Doug McCrae
Legend
In defence of the idea that other adventurers exist and are successful I present this quote from the 1e PHB
D&D in the 70s usually seems to assume that there are many adventurers, partly because there are many players - OD&D recommends a ratio of 1 DM to 20 players - each with a stable of PCs, plus their henchmen. A reasonable further assumption, which is suggested by the PHB quote, is that megadungeons such as the ones beneath Castle Blackmoor and Castle Greyhawk have only recently been discovered by human and demihuman civilisation.
I should stress that I'm not saying anyone ought to run their games in this manner, merely that the idea has been kicking around in D&D for a long time.
D&D in the 70s usually seems to assume that there are many adventurers, partly because there are many players - OD&D recommends a ratio of 1 DM to 20 players - each with a stable of PCs, plus their henchmen. A reasonable further assumption, which is suggested by the PHB quote, is that megadungeons such as the ones beneath Castle Blackmoor and Castle Greyhawk have only recently been discovered by human and demihuman civilisation.
I should stress that I'm not saying anyone ought to run their games in this manner, merely that the idea has been kicking around in D&D for a long time.
Last edited:
NethanielShade
First Post
[MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION], would you happen to know of any published dungeons with lots of hidden stuff like you described? I'm tired of my players blasting through simple, linear dungeons.
"Don't tell me we are the only ship in the quadrant again!" Dr. Leonard McCoy
Quickleaf
Legend
Competent adventures doesn't mean they're good-aligned or even protagonists. All those others are out to get your gold, subjugate the dungeon's monsters for their own nefarious ends, or claim the artifact to tyrannize the land or just get revenge.
My group in Princes of the Apocalypse have missed some significant treasure caches. A lot of the 1e and 2e adventures had large sprawling dungeons that could have whole section that would be bypassed, particularly by groups focused on story objectives as distinct from exploration.
Doug McCrae
Legend
Maybe they're not killed by monsters, maybe they're killed by other adventuring parties. The incentive to do so is huge: magic items and spell books, a lot more than monsters typically carry; no pesky traps or annoying riddles to solve; removal of a rival; easy to avoid witnesses if you do it out in the wilderness, and everyone knows adventuring is a dangerous profession. The best time to attack is when a party has just left the dungeon as they'll be carrying extra loot and low on spells and hit points. It's possible that 'Player Killers' are the main threat to an adventurer's life.
I'm guessing your trying to assume your sandbox world is pre-seeded with a finite number of Yet Another Hidden and Ancient civilizations. And that at some point they will all be fully looted and indexed and studied and turned into museums for future adventures to look back upon and see how things Used To Be.
A) There's likely no need to actually limit your world to this, as your players often won't know or care about the rich backstory of your world as long as there are still doors to kick down, monsters to slay, and things to loot.
B) "Hey look guys, there's another ancient civilization to loot under this one!" You can stack ancient civilizations like cordwood. History has many examples of newer civilizations building atop the ruins of previous ones. It makes you happy to do so, feel free to stack them all the way down to the gestalt.
C) New villains are born every day. Some of them will successfully build new lairs, conquer previously safe kingdoms, and thrust the world to the brink of Armageddon every third Tuesday.
D) The multiverse is nigh-infinite. You can place ancient portals to new and un-plundered riches in unknown worlds and have the portals cycle to new locations every full moon. Maybe the portals are a gift from the local realm deity of riches and adventure? Or maybe new ancient dungeons are gated into your realm's underworld from the nigh-infinite world of inexplicable ancient dungeons?
E) Secrets can just be previously common knowledge that has faded into obscurity. And then suddenly a recent earthquake occurs that creates a rift into a previously buried magical lab that faded from myth and lore centuries ago!
*) It's your world. It's whatever you say it is. You can add backstory after the fact it's it needed. The previous examples are just ideas to prime the pump of your creativity. The more stories you experience in your own lifetime, the greater the wealth of ideas you will have to populate your own world with. Steal Shamelessly From The Things you Love, Especially if you love obscure things you're players have never heard of.
A) There's likely no need to actually limit your world to this, as your players often won't know or care about the rich backstory of your world as long as there are still doors to kick down, monsters to slay, and things to loot.
B) "Hey look guys, there's another ancient civilization to loot under this one!" You can stack ancient civilizations like cordwood. History has many examples of newer civilizations building atop the ruins of previous ones. It makes you happy to do so, feel free to stack them all the way down to the gestalt.
C) New villains are born every day. Some of them will successfully build new lairs, conquer previously safe kingdoms, and thrust the world to the brink of Armageddon every third Tuesday.
D) The multiverse is nigh-infinite. You can place ancient portals to new and un-plundered riches in unknown worlds and have the portals cycle to new locations every full moon. Maybe the portals are a gift from the local realm deity of riches and adventure? Or maybe new ancient dungeons are gated into your realm's underworld from the nigh-infinite world of inexplicable ancient dungeons?
E) Secrets can just be previously common knowledge that has faded into obscurity. And then suddenly a recent earthquake occurs that creates a rift into a previously buried magical lab that faded from myth and lore centuries ago!
*) It's your world. It's whatever you say it is. You can add backstory after the fact it's it needed. The previous examples are just ideas to prime the pump of your creativity. The more stories you experience in your own lifetime, the greater the wealth of ideas you will have to populate your own world with. Steal Shamelessly From The Things you Love, Especially if you love obscure things you're players have never heard of.
Eltab
Lord of the Hidden Layer
In LotR, "everybody knew" the barrows were haunted and that they were full of riches. But it took the Wight pulling Frodo & party inside one before anybody knew how to get in and out of one, to plunder the goodies.
So "nobody has found the entrance yet" is one reason a dungeon can exist even with NPC adventuring parties around.
And (as pointed out above): how can archeologists keep finding new Ancient Egyptian ruins, even though Indiana Jones was all over the area 80 years ago?
So "nobody has found the entrance yet" is one reason a dungeon can exist even with NPC adventuring parties around.
And (as pointed out above): how can archeologists keep finding new Ancient Egyptian ruins, even though Indiana Jones was all over the area 80 years ago?
Grogg of the North
Adventurer
I'm a fan of the way my wife put it.
The farmer goes into the forest to gather firewood. The goblins see him gathering wood and think "He's got nothing worth stealing" and leave him alone. The farmer goes home with his firewood.
The low level adventurers go into the forest. The goblins see them and ambush them. The adventurers fight the goblins and explore the goblin lair, missing the dragon's cave.
The high level adventurers go into the forest. The goblins hid in fear at the sight of them. These adventurers miss the goblins but find the dragon.
The farmer goes into the forest to gather firewood. The goblins see him gathering wood and think "He's got nothing worth stealing" and leave him alone. The farmer goes home with his firewood.
The low level adventurers go into the forest. The goblins see them and ambush them. The adventurers fight the goblins and explore the goblin lair, missing the dragon's cave.
The high level adventurers go into the forest. The goblins hid in fear at the sight of them. These adventurers miss the goblins but find the dragon.
Similar Threads
