If we all rolled the normal way for stats, how come he has three 18's?

[IceFractal]

The problem I have with "roll in order", is that it works fine as inspiration for a character, but not if you already have a character idea you want to play. If you really want to play a spellcaster, no amount of roleplaying will help your 16/16/16/8/8/8 (in order) character be one. If you want to be a crafty warrior who uses wits and agility to fight, too bad you have 18/10/16/6/12/8.

Which leads to the primary problem of any stat rolling system:
1) If it lets players fit the stats to their character, they usually won't be very "interesting" as stats.
2) If it makes the stats "interesting", they usually won't fit people's character ideas.

But for that matter, is it really necessary for the stats to be a point of interest? I mean, nobody expects BAB or Reflex saves to be interesting or unique.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Random rolls are RANDOM. That means you'll see both good and bad results, pathetic and overblown characters in addition to a lot of quite average ones. DM's need to be told or understand the implications of that. At the very least there should be a re-roll threshold. Even WITH that the DM should be ready and willing to do some handwaiving. If the DM is going to allow players to make random rolls at homefor character creation then he's a fool if he doesn't examine the results with a HIGHLY skeptical eye. Players should be made very aware by the DM that it might not even matter if they DID get great rolls honestly - they still have to be believable and so might be DENIED. And the DM needs to know what IS believable with the methods he allows. If honest players are seeing otherwise they have every right to hold the DM's feet to the fire.

If you've got a wimpy DM or he plays favorites, and/or cheating from fellow players don't be bashful about insisitng that everyone REROLL in front of ALL witnesses.

 

[Thurbane]

...or just find another gaming group?

 

[FoxWander]

The most interesting "method" I've seen rolling up stats with dice is when the DM had us all roll one at a time at the game table. We used 4d6 drop the lowest, 7 times drop the lowest- the seemingly "standard" non-standard way to do it. As you can expect, there were good sets and bad but nobody grumbled... too much. Then the DM told us we were all going to use whatever set of rolls we determined was the "best" with the scores arranged how we like. So while we were all 'clones' of each other, we were clones with awesome stats. 18, 17, 16, 16, 13, 12 I believe is what they were.

 

[Elf Witch]

Three 18's should happen in about one of every 2,000 characters using 4d6 six times and drop the lowest.

Other methods such as 4d6 seven times, drop the lowest, disregarding rolls that "don't count", and especially rolling character after character will dramatically increase those odds. Not that I'm accusing Elf Witch's compatriots of doing that (if they only made one pass through the 4d6 and rolled that, I'd give 'em a pat on the back and tell 'em to live it up), but the situation that led to this thread is why I either give players a point-buy system or give them one roll that they make in front of me.

I used to have the opinion that the point buy took something, some "let the dice fall where they may" out of the game, but I've seen a *lot* of players cheat here.

Part of this may harken back to when characters who wanted to play a certain class had to have high numbers in one or more stats, like the paladin.

He rolled them once straight out using roll 4D6 drop lowest. And since we were all sitting there watching the dice roll there was no doubt about the honesty of the rolls.

I personally hate point buy I won't play in a game with it as the only choice. The reason I hate point buy is that I find it boring all my characters end up with average stats and so does everyone elses. Now I don't mind average or even below average stats I don't whinge if I don't roll well. But I like that fact that with rolling sometimes I might get an expectional character.

I usually don't make my mind up what I want to play until I roll and I let the stats guide me. And I am lucky enough to play with people who don't view stats as the end of the game and don't feel over shadowed if someone else has better stats because in the end the game is much than your stats.

As a DM I let my players choose they can roll 4D6 drop the lowest or they can just do a straight out 32 point buy.

 

[Agamon]

One of my long-time players was recently telling the group a story about this kid from high school who always had awesome stats. The one group he played in under my DMing, he had all 18's, 17's and 16's. Of course, this is 1E, where you lose a point of Con every time you're raised. My buddy probably exaggerates (my memory is a bit foggy), but he told them the PC started with an 18 Con which ended up in the single digits. If you think your PC is better off in my games with fabricated high attributes, you've got another think comin'....

 

[Dr. Harry]

He rolled them once straight out using roll 4D6 drop lowest. And since we were all sitting there watching the dice roll there was no doubt about the honesty of the rolls.

I would not dream of doubting you. As we've said, this should happen once every 2,000 characters or so, and given just the numbers of characters I bet just those of us who have participated in thread have seen, I'm not too surprised to see it a couple times.

The method that you describe using is the only method that I would allow other than point buy. (Sit down in front of the DM, roll 4d6, drop one, six times, and arrange as desired.) If the player doesn't want to risk low scores, they have the option of a point buy if they feel that they couldn't bear the risk.

No roll twenty six times until you have a set of stats you like, as some players will do.

I personally hate point buy I won't play in a game with it as the only choice. The reason I hate point buy is that I find it boring all my characters end up with average stats and so does everyone elses. Now I don't mind average or even below average stats I don't whinge if I don't roll well. But I like that fact that with rolling sometimes I might get an expectional character.

I personally don't feel as strongly about this as you do, but if offered my own choices I would take 6x(4d6-d6) every time.

I usually don't make my mind up what I want to play until I roll and I let the stats guide me. And I am lucky enough to play with people who don't view stats as the end of the game and don't feel over shadowed if someone else has better stats because in the end the game is much than your stats.

As a DM I let my players choose they can roll 4D6 drop the lowest or they can just do a straight out 32 point buy.

This is also how I play.

 

[Nadaka]

On a side note, in 2nd edition I once rolled a character (3d6) that had score so low that he could not qualify for the requirements for any class.

 

[JDJblatherings]

18's arent' as rare as folks think they are really. any one roll has a 1 in 216 chance of being an 18. With six stats that means any one character has a 1 in 36 chance of having an 18 (if we are rolling 3d6 straigh out). Use d6 and drop the lowest and the chance of any one roll being an 18 is 21 in 1296 (3 and a half times more likely) , for an almost 1 in 10 chance of an 18 in any one ability score. So 1 in 1000 will have 3 scores of 18 when rolling 4d6 drop the lowest.
So yes of course it can happen, but it isn't too likely but it isn't insanely unlikely.

I've done these-
odds of getting a hole in one: 5,000 to 1 (5 times less likely then 3 18s)
Odds of bowling a 300 game: 11,500 to 1
Odds of injury from shaving: 6,585 to 1

I've witnessed these-
Odds of being struck by lightning: 576,000 to 1 (576 times less likely then getting 3 18's)
Odds of injury from fireworks: 19,556 to 1
Odds of Winning an Olympic medal: 662,000 to 1
Odds of a person in the military winning the Medal of Honor: 11,000 to 1
Odds of finding a four-leaf clover on first try: 10,000 to 1

 

[Rvdvelden]

18's arent' as rare as folks think they are really. any one roll has a 1 in 216 chance of being an 18. With six stats that means any one character has a 1 in 36 chance of having an 18 (if we are rolling 3d6 straigh out). Use d6 and drop the lowest and the chance of any one roll being an 18 is 21 in 1296 (3 and a half times more likely) , for an almost 1 in 10 chance of an 18 in any one ability score. So 1 in 1000 will have 3 scores of 18 when rolling 4d6 drop the lowest.
So yes of course it can happen, but it isn't too likely but it isn't insanely unlikely.

I've done these-
odds of getting a hole in one: 5,000 to 1 (5 times less likely then 3 18s)
Odds of bowling a 300 game: 11,500 to 1
Odds of injury from shaving: 6,585 to 1

I've witnessed these-
Odds of being struck by lightning: 576,000 to 1 (576 times less likely then getting 3 18's)
Odds of injury from fireworks: 19,556 to 1
Odds of Winning an Olympic medal: 662,000 to 1
Odds of a person in the military winning the Medal of Honor: 11,000 to 1
Odds of finding a four-leaf clover on first try: 10,000 to 1

I'm sorry, but I don't like your comparisons. Hole in one, bowling, injury from shaviing, winning an olympic medal are all examples in which you can actively try to improve those odds (practice). Rolling dice is a pure random event in which you can't train yourself (unless you train yourself to cheat).