If we all rolled the normal way for stats, how come he has three 18's?

Urbannen

First Post
I've noticed this phenomenon in two groups I joined from on-line ads (one I stayed with, the other I didn't). The DMs instructed the players to roll for stats using the standard method. When I rolled each time, my highest stat was 15-16 and my lowest stat was 8-9.
Then I noticed that some players, usually those who had played with the DM in the past, had much higher stats.

In the first group, people "rolled" at home. I thought my character's stats were decent (16, 15, 14...), but they were the lowest in the group. One guy had used a computer program to roll his character. I knew because the program left the record on his sheet that he had rolled 26 times to achieve all his 18's, 17's, and 16's.

In the second group, I rolled my character's stats: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 9.
After we were done, I looked at the guy next to me (he had arrived with the DM). His stats: 13, 14, 15, 18, 18, 18 (in that order).
When I expressed my disbelief, the DM said, "I saw him roll". (I suspect the guy rolled d6 24 times, and then put his rolls in groups of four and THEN dropped the lowest.)

When another player started (an old member of the group), I found out he had a 17, 18, and 20. One new guy (who had rolled honestly) had a couple of low stats, a 6 and a 7. Because he was a noble from Conan RPG, he put the decent scores in his mental stats. When play began, the DM mentioned how weak the character was. He seemed surprised, even though he was there when the stats were rolled.

And of course, no one with 18's remarked on how lucky they were to have rolled such high scores. There was never any mention, either in or out of character dialogue, about how exceptional their characters were compared to everybody else.

Why this self-deception? It seems entirely common in the D&D community. If people want super-high scores, why don't they just use a different means of stat generation? Now, if I hear people rolled for stats, I assume something shady is going on.
 

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Shortman McLeod

First Post
Utter nonsense. (I refer to the notion of people rolling their own stats at home, not your post, BTW ;) ).

Any DM worth his (or her) salt should either require a point-buy generation (and check the math of each player's results) or have all players roll attributes together at a character gen session.

Computer generated-rolls? Sheesh. Kids today . . .

;)
 


Shortman McLeod

First Post
Urbannen said:
Why this self-deception? It seems entirely common in the D&D community. If people want super-high scores, why don't they just use a different means of stat generation? Now, if I hear people rolled for stats, I assume something shady is going on.

Just to add something to this . . .

In a recent group I was in we all sat around rolling up characters. One person in the group rolled up a set of six attributes, then threw them out and re-rolled them all. To which I said, "Uh, why are you doing that?" and she said, "Those stats were no good." So, being something of a poop disturber, I said to the DM, "Hey, she's re-rolling all her stats! Is that allowed?" The DM blushed (he's a wuss). So I said, "Fine, I give myself all 18s. If we can reroll anyway, why not just apply the logic of the 'take 20' rule to our stat rolls?"
 

DrunkonDuty

he/him
As a GM I gave up years ago on trying to get some people to roll honestly. Then again, as a player I didn't want terrible stats and I accepted that my players were the same. So generous stat rolling became the norm. But it was the norm for all players.

The situations you mention do seem a lot like favourtism to me. I could be wrong but it smells damn fishy. Poor form on the part of the GM and his/her old friends. If it really bothers you have a quiet word to the GM about it. Ask that everyone use the same rolling method.

It sounds childish I know but no-one wants to have a character who is totally outshone by the other characters.

Self-deception? Well it's not really the place for an in-depth discussion on the topic but I would say that people have an almost limitless ability to lie to themselves, especially about things that are beneficial to themselves. We're all little id monsters at heart.
 


Not meant as a thread crap, but should you take it that way, I understand. I have been in the DMs seat for many years (20+ to be exact) and I've seen some crazy things. I can understand your disbelief in rolled stats, I have seen far too many people cheat the system, heck when I was younger and thought about trying to be the 'best' I often rolled ungodly amounts of times trying to get 'good' scores.

However, I have also seen the lucky rolls as well. My son and daughter have inordinately great amounts of luck when rolling ability scores and hit points. Their luck usually runs out when dicing for money and to hit or damage rolls though. I have also seen the other side of the coin, my wife for example, can't roll decent abilities scores to save her hide, but in battle, she makes Xena: Warrior Princess look like some two bit dancer with a metal circle stuck to her hand. I have a friend that likewise can't roll for crap on the d6s when rolling scores, but tell him he's rolling damage for a fireball and the 6s and 5s come out to play.

I hope you can get past your cynical viewpoint. Not everyone is out to cheat, however, should you get in the DMs chair and think they are...use point buy.
 

Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...
I remember a TMNT GM who had an interesting take on it.

Under the Palladium rules, stats are 3d6, but if you roll a 16 or higher, you get an extra d6... giving you an initial range of 3-24.

This GM said "Feel free to cheat on your stat rolls, but if you do, you don't get the bonus die."

-Hyp.
 

Urbannen

First Post
Shortman McLeod said:
So I said, "Fine, I give myself all 18s. If we can reroll anyway, why not just apply the logic of the 'take 20' rule to our stat rolls?"


:p

So true! That's what I'm saying - if everybody's gonna fudge, just make the rule: automatic stat array: 18, 18, 18, 16, 15, 13. It's quicker, more honest, and you get the same results anyway.
 

Urbannen

First Post
Thunderfoot said:
However, I have also seen the lucky rolls as well. My son and daughter have inordinately great amounts of luck when rolling ability scores and hit points.

I hope you can get past your cynical viewpoint. Not everyone is out to cheat, however, should you get in the DMs chair and think they are...use point buy.

No, it's true you can get lucky. I call even one 18 very lucky. An 18 and 17, also very lucky, but very possible.

But 13, 14, 15, 18, 18, 18 rolled in that order isn't lucky. It's impossible.
 

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