If we all rolled the normal way for stats, how come he has three 18's?

[Herremann the Wise]

I suppose I'm lucky in that the majority of my group, I would trust them to roll at home and email me the results. There are two members though who while I would trust them, I would still want them to roll in front of me, mainly so there wasn't speculation from the other members that something funny might have gone on.

Last game, I got everyone to roll their stats at the one time. It was hilarious! The rules state that if you have a negative modifier aggregate or do not have a score of 15 or over, you are entitled to a complete re-roll. Three out of the five had to be completely re-rolled. There was a good range of stats but nothing exceptionally good or bad. In addition, only one 18 was rolled.

I suppose if you can't trust your group, it's very difficult to argue against point buy... even though I hate point buy.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Torm]

But 13, 14, 15, 18, 18, 18 rolled in that order isn't lucky. It's impossible.

I do not think that means, what you think it means....

Using 4d6 drop the lowest, 7 times and drop the lowest (which is the standard we generally use when we don't do point buy), I've seen someone - rolling at the table in front of everyone, end up with SIX 18s. They voluntarily ditched the stats and rerolled, but I don't think any of us would have blamed him for playing them - he DID roll 'em honest, after all.

Our group is pretty honest even if they roll away from the table. Results ranging from 3 to 18 are fine on each score - if I ever see anyone show up above that, then I'll seriously question it.

 

[Shortman McLeod]

Cheaters still find a way to scam via point-buy. Once caught they plead ignorance of the system.

Sure, but at least you have a way of catching them. Letting them roll at home is just . . . lame.

 

[Shortman McLeod]

I remember a TMNT GM who had an interesting take on it.

Under the Palladium rules, stats are 3d6, but if you roll a 16 or higher, you get an extra d6... giving you an initial range of 3-24.

Of course, in the Palladium rules, stats don't really matter anyway.

 

[RFisher]

Here's a little experiment you can do: You'll need two friends. Give them a coin. Have one of them flip the coin 50 times & record the results. Have the other one make up a list of results on their own. Tell them to decide who does what after you leave the room. When they're done, come back & look at the lists. The one that you think looks random will be one that was made up.

The thing about dice is that they are random. While even straight 18s may be rare, it can to happen. If you're using dice to generate ability scores, then you have to accept that that is a possibility.

Of course, I prefer to either have everyone roll their scores at an actual session or go point-buy if that isn't an option. Because, personally, I enjoy getting good rolls infinitely more when there are others there to experience them with me. Engendering trust is just icing.

 

[Thikket]

But 13, 14, 15, 18, 18, 18 rolled in that order isn't lucky. It's impossible.

Close to 0.10% (probability 0.001) of all characters using the 4d6-drop-lowest method will have a modifier total of +16 or greater. (This is a total of +1 +2 +2 +4 +4 +4 = +17).

This is definitely a nonzero probability -- and the likelihood is a lot higher than most people would guess, at least according to the guesses I've heard. 0.10% crops up often over a huge number of trials, after all! The law of large numbers says we should see stat rolls that are this good or better in about 1 in every 1000 characters.


...Nonetheless, the stubborn human nature in me trumps the mathematician in me, and I reject reality (and statistics) in favor of calling "cheat!" on these rolls.

 

[cougent]

As a GM, I do not always watch my players roll their stats, but I do make them all role together at the same table at the same time. I trust them enough not to stare over their shoulder, but unlimited trust breeds unlimited problems. This way if they are going to cheat they have to at least work together as a group and all of them do it... which is always a good thing for players to do anyway, so a little bad and a little good all rolled into one.

I do not know if they do this group cheat thing or not, but if they do they are smart about it. My group usually had above average scores, but actually rarely 18's and 17's. A range of stats between 13 and 16 was not uncommon though, which was fine with me no matter how they achieved it.

On a similar note, I never understood the "pleasure" of those who *beat* a video game by playing it in god mode, but many do just that and are so proud of themselves... ok, whatever. As a player, I play for the challenge, if I roll all single digits I will attempt to play that character. It may die early, but what a feeling if it lives to Epic status, far more of a rush than playing a 6 x 18 PC the same distance. Oh, and on video games, I usually do good to beat the super easy level, but I do it without god mode and I feel great about it. But I am an old gamer, maybe I was just as rash in my youth, but I doubt it.

 

[Nyaricus]

I've seen a player, roll honestly, five 18s and a 17.

Now, had he come to the game with that set of stats he "rolled" at home, I would have gotten him (and everyone else) to re-roll in front of me. However, I do that anyways, so no problamo

cheers,
--N

 

[vongarr]

Why the deception? I don't know. Human nature, probably. When I think of these things, I think back to the old MUD's or D&D games on the PC where stat rolling is random. I'd click that reroll button endlessly until my thief had an 18 dex, and I'd even re-roll those when the rest was crap.

Usually when someone polices themselves they have a much more lax standard than when they police another.

I had a player whose logic on die rolling was "I'll start rolling the rest of them once I get an 18."
Which is crazy talk. I let my players do one set of 6, and if they don't like it, they do another, but then they're stuck.

Although I did let someone re-roll a lot for reincarnation. But that's fun. His first result was half-elf. Whatever he got after that would probably be worse, so I let him keep on rolling. End result? Orc. Which isn't too bad, if you're fighter. But he was a warmage.

 

[Legildur]

Our group rolls 6 sets of ability scores and chooses the best. Once of the guys openly admits to not starting a 'set' until he has a decent roll (like 15+). Then again, with his play style he needs all the help he can get!

This typically gives everyone at least one 18 (but not always - particularly as I prefer a set with a high average rather than extremes) and we typically need it as the DM can be stingy with treasure (our 15th level party has +3 equivalent armor/weapons).