If we all rolled the normal way for stats, how come he has three 18's?

[Jeff Wilder]

The thing that amuses me is that it doesn't even matter whether the player cheated or not (though he almost certainly did). With a stat disparity that great, the ones with lower stats are going to be wuss-tastic by comparison, and that's not good for the game.

Rolling for stats is just plain goofy. You might as well randomize how many feats and skill points you get.

If you insist on allowing rolled stats, and you want people to be able to roll at home, but be verified, use Irony Games dice server, which uses PGP encryption for roll verification. Then listen to Mr. Three-Eighteens whine.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

End result? Orc. Which isn't too bad, if you're fighter. But he was a warmage.

Why is that bad? He retains the same Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma ... he doesn't get a penalty. (The reincarnate spells is very specific about which ability scores get modified.) Effectively, he gets a +4 to Strength.

From reincarnate: "Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on the new body. First eliminate the subject’s racial adjustments (since it is no longer of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores." Emphasis mine; the only adjustments listed are to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, which for an orc are +4, +0, and +0.

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

Rolling at home is rather dubious. However, I have seen 4 18's, nothing under 16, and several other incredible scores in one time of character generation. However, one thing that did shock was hearing one player whine and moan about getting low scores and wanting to re-roll to try and get what the others got.

If the DM vouches for the scores there really isnt anything you can do.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Random generation has unfairness of outcome hard coded into it. These players rolling without witnesses are being allowed to take the randomness out of the unfairness, so you'll need to cheat too to maintain parity... :\

All in all, the present default random generation system is a source of prolific house rules - the definition of a bad rule set imo.

You have my sympathy Urbannen.

 

[Mark Hope]

Well, the issue of whether you trust your players or not is separate from the issue of whether people can genuinely roll lots of high scores. If you really don't trust them, like folks say, make them roll in front of you, or with a dice server, or with point buy (new-fangled nuttiness imho - what next, balanced classes?? )

Like some folks have said, a run of high stats is indeed possible. I saw a player roll 18, 18, 18, 17, 16, 16, have a character myself with all 17s and 16s (and one 15, iirc), I rolled 18/00 for my very first AD&D character's strength. These things do happen, and the more you play, the more you see them.

It's a trust issue, though. Either you trust your players or you don't. High scores needn't necessarily have any bearing on that. Unless they are "rolling" them all the time, that is, heh...

 

[wedgeski]

Playing for 25+ years, the best stats I've ever seen rolled on 4d6-drop-lowest six times: 18, 18, 17, 15, 15, 13. Just out of interest.

 

[Beginning of the End]

In a recent group I was in we all sat around rolling up characters. One person in the group rolled up a set of six attributes, then threw them out and re-rolled them all. To which I said, "Uh, why are you doing that?" and she said, "Those stats were no good." So, being something of a poop disturber, I said to the DM, "Hey, she's re-rolling all her stats! Is that allowed?" The DM blushed (he's a wuss). So I said, "Fine, I give myself all 18s. If we can reroll anyway, why not just apply the logic of the 'take 20' rule to our stat rolls?"

Please note that, if the roll was actually crappy enough, the rules specifically allow a re-roll.

 

[delericho]

I've noticed this phenomenon in two groups I joined from on-line ads (one I stayed with, the other I didn't)....

Snip story of computerised rerolls, rolling at home, and oddly inflated stats...

Yeah, they're almost certainly cheating. (If nothing else, the 'standard method' outlines when you are allowed a reroll: if your highest stat is 13 or lower, or if your net modifier is +0 or below. The odds of that happening 25 times in a row are... slim.)

The question is: what are you going to do about it? No-one will admit to cheating, and they'll probably get really angry at the suggestion. And the DM is obviously fine with it, so...

Your options are:

1) Leave.

2) Just get on and enjoy the game. When the time comes to roll up your next character, you get to choose whether to 'roll' honest or not.

And, should you ever get to be DM, you get to set the parameters of character generation. So, you can insist on point-buy, or on everyone rolling together while you watch, using your 'known-good' dice, and a cup, and whatever else it takes for you to be sure the rolls are genuine.

Why this self-deception? It seems entirely common in the D&D community. If people want super-high scores, why don't they just use a different means of stat generation? Now, if I hear people rolled for stats, I assume something shady is going on.

There are two pressures: everyone wants good stats, but they also feel they have to roll them for them to somehow be 'genuine'. So, they roll, and roll, and roll. Or, they change the rolling scheme to be extremely generous. Or, they nudge the occasional die. It's a bizarre little quirk, but it happens. And, once one person in the group is cheating (or even if they don't, but happen to get really lucky one time), the pressure is then on everyone else to do likewise.

Ultimately, it is for the DM, or the players as a whole, to put a stop to it, if they care enough to do so.

But, finally, I can verify that not every group cheats when using random rolls. Though one of the characters in my current group is now marked for an early death, because his player isn't really happy with his 10-16-10-10-10-10 Halfling Rogue...

 

[Thanee]

One guy had used a computer program to roll his character. I knew because the program left the record on his sheet that he had rolled 26 times to achieve all his 18's, 17's, and 16's.

LOL

Why this self-deception? It seems entirely common in the D&D community. If people want super-high scores, why don't they just use a different means of stat generation?

That would be too easy...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Tetsubo]

I've seen a player, roll honestly, five 18s and a 17.

Now, had he come to the game with that set of stats he "rolled" at home, I would have gotten him (and everyone else) to re-roll in front of me. However, I do that anyways, so no problamo

cheers,
--N

Back in the days of 1E we had a room full of players witness the "new guy" roll six 17's in a row using 3d6... best luck I ever saw...