if you get Rend, does it combine with the claw damage to overcome DR?

[Dracuwulf]

on a creature with claws that if both hit you get Rend, is the Rend damage separate or does it considered combined with a claw attack for purposes of overcoming damage reduction? For example, the claws do 5 each, and the rend does 15. The defender has DR 5. What's the damages? 0, 0, 10? or 15,0 ?

 

[Laman Stahros]

I have always ran that the claw damage is seperate from the rend damage, so it would be 5, 5, 15 in your example (before DR).

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I have always ran that the claw damage is seperate from the rend damage, so it would be 5, 5, 15 in your example (before DR).

That's the way I play it, too, but I have wondered if it should go the other way. The visualization of a rend suggests that it should, certainly.

 

[Scharlata]

on a creature with claws that if both hit you get Rend, is the Rend damage separate or does it considered combined with a claw attack for purposes of overcoming damage reduction? For example, the claws do 5 each, and the rend does 15. The defender has DR 5. What's the damages? 0, 0, 10? or 15,0 ?

Hi!

From the MM3 Glossary:
Rend (Ex): If a creature with this special attack hits with the specified natural attack, it latches onto the opponent's body and tears the flesh. [...]

If I read that correctly, there's a conditional clause: If, ... then. So, we're grammatically supposed to read it that way. After the first thing happened (and that includes the dealing of damage from the normal attack), then the second thing can be executed (and that includes the dealing of damage from the rend special attack).

But, as wilder_jw suggests, it would be "nice" to be the other way around.

Kind regards

 

[hong]

Here's the text from the troll's rend description: "If a troll hits with both claw attacks... This attack deals an additional 2d6+9 points of damage". Note the "additional", which means it's damage that is done as part of the same attack as the claws. Hence I'd say DR doesn't apply to it separately.

This is only for the troll, but most if not all rend descriptions would probably read the same way -- it's boilerplate text.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Here's the text from the troll's rend description: "If a troll hits with both claw attacks... This attack deals an additional 2d6+9 points of damage". Note the "additional", which means it's damage that is done as part of the same attack as the claws. Hence I'd say DR doesn't apply to it separately.

Yes, but note that "This attack" is clearly referring to the Rend as a separate attack. There are several creatures that, when they hit, deal "additional" damage of one type or another (e.g., salamanders). A salamander's fire damage isn't added to the other damage for purposes of overcoming DR, right?

The "additional 2d6+9 points of damage" referred to above just means "an additional damage roll," not "more damage added on to the first damage."

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I also agree that the Rend is a separate attack. If it were meant to be additive, there would have to be some sort of direction for which of the two claw attacks (first, second, both?) to add it to. Since you might roll 5 damage with the first and 15 for the second, it's an importand distinction when dealing with DR.

But there are no such specifications in any of the descriptions, leading me to believe that it's a separate "bonus attack" that automatically hits if the two claws do.