If you have a Dex penalty, does that apply to your Flat-Footed AC?

[tylermalan]

If you have a Dex penalty, does that apply to your Flat-Footed AC?

 

[Delta]

Yes. You only lose a bonus; a penalty is retained as always. From SRD:

Flat-Footed: A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, not yet reacting normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.

 

[Hypersmurf]

PHB p8 offers the possibility for the alternative.

It lists what your Dexterity modifier applies to; one of the bullet points is:
Armor Class (AC), provided that the character can react to the attack.

The implication, then, is that if the character cannot react to the attack, his Dexterity modifier does not apply to Armor Class (AC).

Being flat-footed can deny your your Dex bonus to AC, but since it makes you unable to react to the attack, it could be argued that your Dex modifier never applied to AC against that attack in the first place...

-Hyp.

 

[Li Shenron]

If you have a Dex penalty, does that apply to your Flat-Footed AC?

Yes, without doubts.

 

[tylermalan]

Yes, without doubts.

Really?

So, you're standing there. Not defending yourself. And you get attacked. The only thing between you and the attack is your armor. And though you're not trying to dodge the attack, your ability to dodge attacks still applies?

This has come up because I have a Paladin with a -1 Dex modifier in my game. He's also wearing +2 Full Plate and carrying a +2 Heavy Steel Shield. His AC is normally 23. But Flat-footed...

 

[hong]

Really?

So, you're standing there. Not defending yourself. And you get attacked. The only thing between you and the attack is your armor. And though you're not trying to dodge the attack, your ability to dodge attacks still applies?

If you're literally not trying to dodge an attack, then you're effectively an inanimate object and your Dex is 0 (-5 penalty). If I was the DM, I'd let people try to coup de grace you as well.

As long as you actually have a Dex score, you're trying to dodge attacks. You're just doing it ineffectually.

 

[Li Shenron]

What hong said. Being flat-footed is not the same thing as totally giving up defense.

Just notice that if a Dex penalty would not apply in case of being flat-footed, essentially it would mean that for this character it is better to be flat-footed than not!

But having a Dex penalty doesn't mean that you're so bad at dodging that you get hit more often when you try to dodge than when you don't try to dodge.

 

[Goolpsy]

How can u deliberatly dodge an attack that you are unaware of? How can your clumsiness make you easier to attack when you aren't doing anything?
If anything... it should give you an AC bonus when flatfooty for unexpected behavior...

As this is the rule section: Acording to the rules, A bonus from Dex is removed when flatfootet.. not a penalty from dex

 

[tylermalan]

....

Still, you're standing there, you're not actively defending yourself because you haven't reacted to the attack, as per Hypersmurf. The dex penalty comes from the fact that you're really not good at defending yourself, but if you're not trying...? I agree, it would be better to be flatfooted than not, in this circumstance, but I don't see how that points to any conclusion.

I guess I'm drawing a similarity between trying to catch an arrow that's fired at you. Let's say you have an "arrow catching modifier." The average person has a modifier of 0, so when they try to catch arrows, they get no bonuses and no penalties. If you have a bonus, and you try to catch arrows, you're more likely to catch them. If you have a penalty, and you try to catch arrows, you're less likely.

If you have a bonus, and you DON'T try, then you probably won't catch the arrow. If you have a penalty, and you DON'T try, then you probably won't catch the arrow, and I would say the probability of catching the arrow in both circumstances is exactly the same.

A penalty wouldn't make someone who ISN'T trying any worse than the average person who isn't trying. You don't agree?

 

[tylermalan]

How can u deliberatly dodge an attack that you are unaware of? How can your clumsiness make you easier to attack when you aren't doing anything?
If anything... it should give you an AC bonus when flatfooty for unexpected behavior...

As this is the rule section: Acording to the rules, A bonus from Dex is removed when flatfootet.. not a penalty from dex

I agree with the first part. How bad you are at dodging attacks shouldn't have any effect when you're not trying to dodge.