D&D 5E If you use thunderstep but teleport less than 10 feet do you take damage?

[James Gasik]

1. I don't think anyone here has been saying they don't like the spell (although, to be fair, I've largely skimmed/skipped the wall-of-text responses)

2. We have a warlock with this spell because it is useful to them and we know the ruling will be that if the teleportation is not more than 10', the warlock is taking damage, too

3. It's a reasonably decent (and flavorful) escape and/or rescue spell which adds injury to the insult. Why is that silly?

4. Sorcerers should take Careful Spell if they want to play fast and loose with any AoE spells.


What job do you envision and what spell(s) would be better?

Well, how about an upcast Shatter? 4d8 thunder damage, the radius isn't quite as big but it's pretty rare you'd be totally surrounded by enemies anyways, right?

EDIT: or an upcast Earth Tremor. Slightly more than half the damage, but it can knock people prone and doesn't hurt you in the slightest.

 

[Maxperson]

Fabricating a gap in time that has no defined duration and therefore either a vague “t-space” location or the addition of unexplained chronological magic seems to add powers and complexity and confusion that the spell doesn’t even seem to hint at.

Not to mention the silliness involved with, "You interrupt the instant teleport to walk 30 feet or crawl 15 feet, and then the instant teleport concludes when you finish moving." or "Since you readied the action to walk away, you are now walking faster than an instant teleport and get out of the way of the instant thunder damage."

 

[James Gasik]

All of D&D is silliness, from a certain point of view. I'm fully aware my interpretation could be wrong, but I still don't agree that the rules give us any definitive statements either way.

I mean, I find the idea that Feeblemind has an instantaneous duration, but still allows you to save against it's effect every 30 days to be kind of bizarre. If it's magic only lasts an instant, what are you making saves against? Especially since it says "If it succeeds on this saving throw, the spell ends."

What spell!? It's magic is gone, which is why you can't dispel it, right?

But hey, maybe I'm the only one who thinks that way. Perhaps I've been feebleminded. : )

 

[Irlo]

As for freezing in place, this is a fact of D&D combat. You can have 30 orcs 60 feet away from the door and 30 feet from my PC who is in the middle. No surprise and all of us wanting to run for the door, and because they win initiative all 30 orcs make it to the door before my PC can move. Not only that, but despite all of us wanting to get out of the door, I can look at those 30 of those orcs AT THE DOOR before I moved, and decide to move a different direction from the point I was standing at.

Not to mention the silliness involved with, "You interrupt the instant teleport to walk 30 feet or crawl 15 feet, and then the instant teleport concludes when you finish moving." or "Since you readied the action to walk away, you are now walking faster than an instant teleport and get out of the way of the instant thunder damage."

These two scenarios are equally silly (IMO). It's just that the first is the sort of thing we see in every round of combat, and it seems to be accepted, while the second is extremely unlikely to ever come up in actual play yet is hotly debated.

 

[skelekon]

What if you use your readied action to walk over into the teleport destination square?
Does it end up like The Fly?

 

[dave2008]

Other fiction or other game systems may have other rules for things; I don’t think they apply in 5e RAW in this case. For instance, Star Trek teleportation has been mentioned a few times as taking time. To be fair n Star Trek they are Transporters that “teleport” by transforming matter into energy and then moving the particles rapidly. In 5e, teleport causes something to disappear and reappear at a certain location; the intricacies of modern science are mostly ignored.

Teleport happens instantly. The game uses plain language — the common definition of “instantly” is immediately or without a gap in time. The boom happens after the disappearance. The first sentence of the spell’s description says the caster teleports to a different location. Then it says immediately after the disappearance the boom happens. The order of the sentences and the use of the word after help clarify what happens. Fabricating a gap in time that has no defined duration and therefore either a vague “t-space” location or the addition of unexplained chronological magic seems to add powers and complexity and confusion that the spell doesn’t even seem to hint at. There are demi-planes and time spells, but neither is mentioned in the spell description.

If a DM wants to interpret the spell differently, the rules allow for that. But that doesn’t make that ruling RAW; it amends those rules. Ruling that the caster takes damage is not punishing a player; it’s the most basic (non-complicated) understanding of the spell’s description. If the player doesn’t realize they will be a part of “each creature” in range taking damage, the DM probably should warn them because their PC has likely had more experience with the spell. I don’t see the cost/benefit aspects of the spell informing this interpretation. It’s dangerous just like a fireball.

Very thoughtful response, except it had almost nothing to with my post!

 

[James Gasik]

What if you use your readied action to walk over into the teleport destination square?
Does it end up like The Fly?

Based on what the power says, either it fails since you have to teleport to an unoccupied square, or you get to choose a new one, or the DM rules you appear in the nearest legal square.

Or maybe you take damage, like some other spells indicate, if the DM feels like ruling in such a way.

This isn't really that niche of a question though- what if you try to teleport to a square you think is unoccupied, but has, say, an invisible, hidden enemy present in it? I think the power would fail without explanation, or maybe you just get a mental alert saying "illegal target". Or your adventurer gets fused with a kobold and becomes KOBOLDMAN, with the proportionate Strength of a Kobold!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Sure, but the amount of time is so incredibly small that there wouldn't be time to move in-between the disappearance and re-appearance, and would be faster than the speed of sound.

You found a hole in the rule of sequential actions and readying. Congratulations.
That still does not prove that the caster is hit by the damage.

Sequential actions also fall down when people try to run from each other and a caster readys a fireball to blast the one with higher initiative after completing their 60ft movement/dash, only harming one of the runners.

To make it clear:

A and B start next to each other. C is a caster with fireball.

A has initiative 19
B has initiative 18
C has initative 1

A runs 60ft, A and B are 60ft apart
B runs 60ft, A and B are next to each other again

C readys fireball after A completes their move.
A runs 60ft
Fireball thrown at B, A is unharmed.

On top of that, A is constantly in fear of opportunity attacks because they are the one always leaving B's threatened space.

So in fiction, A and B would just run next to each other. In D&D they shift between two states that leave them next to each other and 60ft apart. If you are argumenting about speed of sound/light, you should also object the constant teleportation by the runners.

 

[Maxperson]

You found a hole in the rule of sequential actions and readying. Congratulations.
That still does not prove that the caster is hit by the damage.

Sequential actions also fall down when people try to run from each other and a caster readys a fireball to blast the one with higher initiative after completing their 60ft movement/dash, only harming one of the runners.

To make it clear:

A and B start next to each other. C is a caster with fireball.

A has initiative 19
B has initiative 18
C has initative 1

A runs 60ft, A and B are 60ft apart
B runs 60ft, A and B are next to each other again

C readys fireball after A completes their move.
A runs 60ft
Fireball thrown at B, A is unharmed.

On top of that, A is constantly in fear of opportunity attacks because they are the one always leaving B's threatened space.

So in fiction, A and B would just run next to each other. In D&D they shift between two states that leave them next to each other and 60ft apart. If you are argumenting about speed of sound/light, you should also object the constant teleportation by the runners.

It's not constant teleportation by the runners. It's constant sequential actions per initiative. Nobody is moving at instantaneous(teleportation) speeds.

 

[James Gasik]

Looking at Dimension Door, I've noticed something odd about it, Misty Step, and Thunder Step. They use the word "teleport", though curiously, don't use the language Teleport and Teleportation Circle that states you "instantly" arrive at your destination. That's not proof of anything, just odd that they used shorthand to describe "teleporting" without specifically referring to Teleport. 5e doesn't seem big on keywords.

I do concede that teleportation does instantly transport you to the new location, based on how Dimension Door is worded. I'm still not 100% sure the intent of Thunder Step is to damage the caster if they fail to teleport far enough, but while I feel there is room for interpretation, that ruling is a valid one (and probably the one Sage Advice will support, if it is ever asked).

I don't like it, it seems sketchy "so we made this 3rd level spell that lets you Misty Step and leave a Shatter behind you". "Hey that's great." "Yeah but you could accidentally blow yourself up if you don't teleport more than 10' away!" "Seems odd, why would you do that when you can just cast Shatter?" "Uh...reasons?"