D&D 5E If you use thunderstep but teleport less than 10 feet do you take damage?

ECMO3

Hero
Thunderstep spell:

You teleport yourself to an unoccupied space you can see within range. Immediately after you disappear, a thunderous boom sounds, and each creature within 10 feet of the space you left must make a Constitution saving throw, taking 3d10 thunder damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. The thunder can be heard from up to 300 feet away.

What if you only move yourself 10 feet, do you take damage from it?

It says immediately after you disappear, not sure if that is before you reappear if you also reappear immediately after you disappear.
 

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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Caster's choice. Not sure why you'd want to take damage, though.
Why is it caster's choice? This seems like a DM ruling situation. It can be argued effectively that you disappear and reappear instantaneously, so the caster takes damage, and that you don't appear right away and don't take damage. The caster doesn't control that, though.
 

Hriston

Dungeon Master of Middle-earth
Why is it caster's choice? This seems like a DM ruling situation. It can be argued effectively that you disappear and reappear instantaneously, so the caster takes damage, and that you don't appear right away and don't take damage. The caster doesn't control that, though.
It’s the caster’s choice because the caster decides whether to teleport beyond the range of the thunder damage or not. I don’t think there’s much if any leeway for the caster to teleport to a space within the damage radius and not take damage considering that the duration of the spell is instantaneous, meaning that the teleportation effect (instant transportation) happens instantly upon casting, and the thunder happens immediately after that.
 

Lyxen

Great Old One
It’s the caster’s choice because the caster decides whether to teleport beyond the range of the thunder damage or not. I don’t think there’s much if any leeway for the caster to teleport to a space within the damage radius and not take damage considering that the duration of the spell is instantaneous, meaning that the teleportation effect (instant transportation) happens instantly upon casting, and the thunder happens immediately after that.

Actually, the rules provide the answer. All the effects (the disappearance, the reappearance and the thunder damage) are instantaneous because the spell is and because the thunder damage occurs "immediately after you disappear". So we obviously have "simultaneous effects", and the disappearance can be considered specifically separate from the reappearance (otherwise the description would have been "immediately after you reappear").

There already was a rule in the PH about simultaneous spells, but Xanathar made it clear: "Most effects in the game happen in succession, following an order set by the rules or the DM. In rare cases, effects can happen at the same time, especially at the start or end of a creature’s turn. If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM — who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens first."

So, in that case, it's the player controlling the PC who decides, and he will probably decide that the damage occurs before he reappears.

Note that a DM can always make a different ruling, but as often the rules are fairly indulgent with the player and I would let them stand that way.
 

S'mon

Legend
Actually, the rules provide the answer. All the effects (the disappearance, the reappearance and the thunder damage) are instantaneous because the spell is and because the thunder damage occurs "immediately after you disappear". So we obviously have "simultaneous effects", and the disappearance can be considered specifically separate from the reappearance (otherwise the description would have been "immediately after you reappear").

There already was a rule in the PH about simultaneous spells, but Xanathar made it clear: "Most effects in the game happen in succession, following an order set by the rules or the DM. In rare cases, effects can happen at the same time, especially at the start or end of a creature’s turn. If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM — who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens first."

So, in that case, it's the player controlling the PC who decides, and he will probably decide that the damage occurs before he reappears.

Note that a DM can always make a different ruling, but as often the rules are fairly indulgent with the player and I would let them stand that way.
I think this would be the Crawfordian approach. I think I personally would rule that the damage occurs same time as the reappearance, so the character would take damage. I'd almost certainly advise the player of this first though!
 

Lyxen

Great Old One
I think this would be the Crawfordian approach.

Indeed, for multiple reasons, and in particular something that I am very much in favor off in my 5e games, a benevolent attitude towards the players rather than a harsher interpretation.

I think I personally would rule that the damage occurs same time as the reappearance, so the character would take damage. I'd almost certainly advise the player of this first though!

And as I mentioned, I'm would be fine with that interpretation as well, and in particular with your forewarning, a DM is absolutely entitled to any ruling he prefers, and that is Crawfordian as well. :)
 

S'mon

Legend
Indeed, for multiple reasons, and in particular something that I am very much in favor off in my 5e games, a benevolent attitude towards the players rather than a harsher interpretation.



And as I mentioned, I'm would be fine with that interpretation as well, and in particular with your forewarning, a DM is absolutely entitled to any ruling he prefers, and that is Crawfordian as well. :)
Thanks for your support! :D

Yeah, I do actually like how 5e is kinder on the PCs than previous editions (esp 3e, which I found absolutely brutal); I just don't go as far as Crawford generally does.
 


Lyxen

Great Old One
Thanks for your support! :D

You're very welcome.

Yeah, I do actually like how 5e is kinder on the PCs than previous editions (esp 3e, which I found absolutely brutal); I just don't go as far as Crawford generally does.

The problem with 3e is that it was very technical and incited some people to think that being a "better player" meant better using the rules to one's advantage, which in turn created a kind of arrogance about some people thinking that they were "better" than others because they played harsher games where you had to be more "clever" to survive. While there is nothing inherently wrong about playing the way, it is inherently wrong to think that you are better for playing it that way. Fortunately, 5e set it right globally, and specifically in the introduction of the PH. There are no better players and there are not idiots, just people playing the game, hopefully together in the right spirit of cooperation.
 



Lyxen

Great Old One
First sentence, "you teleport." Second sentence, "after...".

Tsss tsss tss, your partial quoting here is revealing, it says: "Immediately after you disappear" not after you teleport.

And you have failed to prove that teleportation is instantaneous (I'm waiting for a rule), it just means that you go from one place to another. The spell CLEARLY makes a difference between the disappearance and the reappearance.

Once instantaneous action occurs after the other. It's really quite simple and clear.

Nope, there are three instantaneous actions, disappearance, damage and reappearance. prove me wrong, and without forgetting words of the spell.
 






95% of Crawfords tweets on rule clarifications are simply explaining English language to people. Better? This is exactly what I'm talking about.
So, in the absence of an official 5e definition of a fictional concept you want to refer to the real world?!

For a start, in the real world, there is not such thing as "instantaneous".

So lets look at fiction. The most well known example is Star Trek. Which is definitely not instantaneous. There are many examples of things happening in transit, and characters being stored in "pattern buffers". For years, on occasion. In Star Trek you could certainly dematerialise someone before an explosion, then rematerialize them in the same spot after it.

There are many other examples in fiction of non-instantaneous teleportation. Take the teleport dodge, a superhero staple. The character disappears to evade an attack, then reappears in the same spot.
 
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