D&D (2024) IF you're allowing a PC to roll, WHEN does autosuccess matter?

[Parmandur]

This makes me curious. i have never noticed it, but a) I have only run a few of the adventures and b) I chnage them pretty significantly when I do. Can you recall an example, preferably in one of the following adventures (since I have copies on the shelves in front of me): Princes, Storm King, Avernus, Dragon heist or Rime? You don't have to give me page and line, just where abouts it was in the adventure. Again, I'm not trying to gotcha you, I am just curious how they set them up.

About to put my kids down to sleep, but I'll check for more latter, but my Google Fu shows an Arcan trained exclusive check in room C17 of Princes of the Apocalypse.

I do know examples can be multiplied with study.

 

[Larnievc]

Umm...no. Maybe you missed the big, all-caps "NOT" in the middle of what I wrote?

Ah, my half assed reading. I get you now.

 

[Li Shenron]

"To be warranted, a d20 test must have a target number no less than 5 and no greater than 30."

For some reason that sentence bothers me a lot... it makes me feel like WotC is telling me a bit too much how should I should handle my DCs, and that is not ok with me.

 

[Marc Radle]

But as soon as you assign a TN of 20 to the Sage-background, Proficient-in-Religion cleric, the wording of the rules that say that a roll is warranted when the TN is no less than 5 and no greater than 30 would be allow the player of the Brute Barbarian to say "hey, a roll is warranted, oh, I made a 20". I think this sentence is badly written if they intended to say that a roll is warranted when the DM determines it considering the character who attempt it AND the TN is between 5 and 30. But this is an aside to the problem (which wasn't "who can roll" but "how is getting an auto-success on 20 something that change things").

Let's assume that the character is indeed proficient in Religion. IF you made that character roll, it means you estimate that he can succeed (because we all agree that DMs don't let player roll their dice for the sound of it, but only if they have a chance of succeeding, if only not to have to deal with the player saying "why one earth did you make me roll, I got a 20 and yet I fail?!?"). Then, in the 5e ruleset, you assign a DC. Why are you asking for a roll if you have determined that the DC would be unreachable for this character? And if the DC is reachable, it means that the character would have succeeded anyway on a 20 since it's the best possible score. Honestly, when I know I'll set a DC that can't be reached, for example 25 to lift a cart and the character has 15 STR and is level 1 (so max roll 24), in 5e, I just tell the player "no need to roll, it's impossible". This is the only case where the auto-succeed on 20 would change something: when the DM as said "sure, it's possible, you CAN roll for it" while having set a TN that is out of reach for the character...

Basically, I only see this rule changing anything in the odd case where the DM says "it's possible" and yet assign a TN outside of the character's ability to succeed anyway.

What is TN ?

 

[Reynard]

What is TN ?

Same as DC

 

[Bill Zebub]

What is TN ?

Oh...was that me? I use both without realizing it.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Same as DC

Actually we don't know. It seems to be functionally identical. They are using target number where DC would have been used, but we aren't advanced enough in the playtest to be sure. Maybe they'll give a detailed explanation on how to adjudicate the target number that will slightly differ (if not, why change the name?)

 

[Reynard]

Actually we don't know. It seems to be functionally identical. They are using target number where DC would have been used, but we aren't advanced enough in the playtest to be sure. Maybe they'll give a detailed explanation on how to adjudicate the target number that will slightly differ (if not, why change the name?)

There seems to be some confusion: WotC isn't using TN, another poster did.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

There seems to be some confusion: WotC isn't using TN, another poster did.

The playtest says in the glossary about d20 tests that it "must have a target number of no less than 5 and no greater than 30". They don't use the "difficulty class" in the glossary, the one place where one would expect the correct game terms to be used (and especially in the playtest document where the audience is experienced 5e players: changing the terminology is probably not an oversight but a choice).

They mention DC in saving throws descriptions in the same document (for the draconian breath weapon), so they didn't drop the name altogether.

 

[Maxperson]

This makes me curious. i have never noticed it, but a) I have only run a few of the adventures and b) I chnage them pretty significantly when I do. Can you recall an example, preferably in one of the following adventures (since I have copies on the shelves in front of me): Princes, Storm King, Avernus, Dragon heist or Rime? You don't have to give me page and line, just where abouts it was in the adventure. Again, I'm not trying to gotcha you, I am just curious how they set them up.

I don't run 5e adventures really, but this is said in the DMG on page 103.

"Locked Doors. Characters who don't have the key to a locked door can pick the lock with a successful Dexterity check (doing so requires thieves' tools and proficiency in their use)."

So no proficiency = impossible. Proficiency = possibly possible.