Illusory damage?

[zyzzyr]

Hi all,

I had a session recently that included an illusionist casting "major image" to create a fire elemental, which then attacked the dwarf fighter. The dwarf fighter failed his saving throw.

How do you handle illusory damage? I told him he took "x amount of damage", but on my own sheet, I marked it down as "imaginary damage", and when the player (not the character) figured out it was an illusion, i told him to count it as subdual damage.

In the end, he tried to run right through it (and failed another saving throw), and got wallopped by the elemental, and "died". (He had twice the subdual damage as he did hit points - he was actually fully healed).

And so he went unconscious.

Secondly, I had a half-orc bbn who failed his first saving throw, and the elemental shot out sheets of flame. The illusionist wisely put a flaming sphere on the spot where the elemental was, and rolled it forward, so he took real damage as well as "imaginary" damage.

I don't know really how to handle illusory damage, or if it should count. My guess is yes, since if you don't count it, the illusion has to continually miss the player, and only act as a barrier. I can't imagine it would deal real damage, as it's not a holodeck with the safety precautions off.

Thoughts? How the heck do you handle illusory damage?

 

[Thanee]

Depends on the type of illusions, some can do real damage.

EDIT: As Dr. Zoom says, no damage from figments!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Dr. Zoom]

They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures.

This is from the PH, page 158, under the Figment heading. Their is no such thing as illusory damage caused by a figment. The fighter failed his save and thus did not notice anything wrong yet. If he ran through the illusion and took no damage, he should have the incontrovertible proof he needs to disbelieve the illusion.

if you don't count it, the illusion has to continually miss the player, and only act as a barrier.

This is precisely what should happen. The figment cannot damage the fighter at all. The section in the PH makes this clear and even talks about their usefulness in distracting your foe. But they cannot cause any real or subdual damage.

 

[Henrix]

I'd like to clarify Dr. Zoom's statement and add that illusions, other than phantasm or shadow spells, cannot cause damage.
Major Illusion is a figment, and so cannot cause damage.

 

[Bobbystopholes]

I was DMing a group of 4th level PCs against an Osyluth just yesterday. They didn't have any ranged magic weapons and the Osyluth wanted to have fun with them. He hovered just above them and cast wall of ice, suggestion and major image. I called forth a Pit Fiend (gave them bonuses to disbelieve just so I could have the Osyluth laugh at their faces. One guy failed. The pit fiend tagged him. It was sad. I ruled that it was imaginary damage and when finally made his next will save, it all disappeared. The players really seemed to enjoy it.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Sounds like you all had fun, and that is what the game is all about. However, by the rules, the Pit Fiend cannot "tag" him and cause damage, imagined or otherwise. They should not get saving throws, either, until they interact with the figment. They had no reason to disbelieve, at least not immediately.

 

[gfunk]

If you want illusions that cause real damage consider:

1) Phantasamal Killer (4th)/Weird (9th)

2) Shadow Evocation (5th)/Greater Shadow Evocation (6th)

3) Shadow Conjuration (5th)/Shades (6th)

 

[Bobbystopholes]

I said they disbelieved because an Osyluth calling a Pit Fiend was unreasonable. The Osyluth wanted it that way. He used it to pick out the "weak willed" ones to Suggest. It worked like a charm. The same person who believed in the image got suggested next round and almost killed his Dwarven Fighter buddy.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

No problem, Bobby. I just cannot see how it is that unreasonable, unless the characters know that the Osyluth cannot do such a thing. At least it might fool them for a round or two.

 

[Nik_the_Pig]

Just because something isn't real doesn't mean that someone will not react to it as if it is real.

If someone get bitten a harmless spider they may get a tad annoyed etc but otherwise be unharmed. If they don't know it's harmless they may go into shock, pass out, throw up, what ever. Same thing with being shot with a blank. If you believe you've been shot you may well fall over, faint, if you've a week heart possibly die from the shock. Soon as you realise that you haven't been you may still feel a little ill, maybe a tad pissed off but you haven't suffered any real damage.

Subdual damage seems like the right idea. Once you realise it's not real you recover quickly but still take a little while to get over the shock of the experience.