I'm falling! I'M FALLING! ...So what?

[irdeggman]

Look at it this way. How many traps have an attack roll? They almost always involve a save vs a set DC to avoid/reduce damage. If there are traps with an attack roll please point me in the direction so I can get better educated on the subject.

If DR counts against traps and falls then it needs to be a higher LA than it already is.

DR also doesn't apply to ability damage - not just ER.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Well, shoot, make it easy on us!

Basic Arrow Trap: CR 1; mechanical; proximity trigger; manual reset; Atk +10 ranged (1d6/x3, arrow); Search DC 20; Disable Device DC 20. Market Price: 2,000 gp.

Camouflaged Pit Trap: CR 1; mechanical; location trigger; manual reset; DC 20 Reflex save avoids; 10 ft. deep (1d6, fall); Search DC 24; Disable Device DC 20. Market Price: 1,800 gp.

Deeper Pit Trap: CR 1; mechanical; location trigger; manual reset; hidden switch bypass (Search DC 25); DC 15 Reflex save avoids; 20 ft. deep (2d6, fall); multiple targets (first target in each of two adjacent 5-ft. squares); Search DC 20; Disable Device DC 23. Market Price: 1,300 gp.

Fusillade of Darts: CR 1; mechanical; location trigger; manual reset; Atk +10 ranged (1d4+1, dart); multiple targets (fires 1d4 darts at each target in two adjacent 5-ft. squares); Search DC 14; Disable Device DC 20. Market Price: 500 gp.

Poison Dart Trap: CR 1; mechanical; location trigger; manual reset; Atk +8 ranged (1d4 plus poison, dart); poison (bloodroot, DC 12 Fortitude save resists, 0/1d4 Con plus 1d3 Wis); Search DC 20; Disable Device DC 18. Market Price: 700 gp.

Poison Needle Trap: CR 1; mechanical; touch trigger; manual reset; Atk +8 ranged (1 plus greenblood oil poison); Search DC 22; Disable Device DC 20. Market Price: 1,300 gp.

Portcullis Trap: CR 1; mechanical; location trigger; manual reset; Atk +10 melee (3d6); Search DC 20; Disable Device DC 20. Note: Damage applies only to those underneath the portcullis. Portcullis blocks passageway. Market Price: 1,400 gp.

Razor-Wire across Hallway: CR 1; mechanical; location trigger; no reset; Atk +10 melee (2d6, wire); multiple targets (first target in each of two adjacent 5-ft. squares); Search DC 22; Disable Device DC 15. Market Price: 400 gp.

Rolling Rock Trap: CR 1; mechanical; location trigger; manual reset; Atk +10 melee (2d6, rock); Search DC 20; Disable Device DC 22. Market Price: 1,400 gp.

Scything Blade Trap: CR 1; mechanical; location trigger; automatic reset; Atk +8 melee (1d8/x3); Search DC 21; Disable Device DC 20. Market Price: 1,700 gp.

Spear Trap: CR 1; mechanical; location trigger; manual reset; Atk +12 ranged (1d8/x3, spear); Search DC 20; Disable Device DC 20. Note: 200-ft. max range, target determined randomly from those in its path. Market Price: 1,200 gp.

Swinging Block Trap: CR 1; mechanical; touch trigger; manual reset; Atk +5 melee (4d6, stone block); Search DC 20; Disable Device DC 20. Market Price: 500 gp.

Wall Blade Trap: CR 1; mechanical; touch trigger; automatic reset; hidden switch bypass (Search DC 25); Atk +10 melee (2d4/x4, scythe); Search DC 22; Disable Device DC 22. Market Price: 2,500 gp.

So, of the 13 most basic traps, 11 have actual attack rolls associated with them (and many have multiple attack rolls).

 

[irdeggman]

Good point.

Now I guess the question is when is a trap a weapon?

I think I'd probably go with if it required an attack roll then it would be counted as a weapon. Simple, to the point and seems to address most issues.

Something to notice also is that DR (in the DMG) states that if it reduces the damage to zero then it negates secondary damage caused by the attack (e.g., poison damage). This makes DR extremely powerful and like I said earlier probably worth more than the LA that Savage Species gives it - especially if it is applied to everything, like to a fall.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Except certain traps don't have an attack roll, but should still be affected by DR. Something like a falling block trap, or a compacting / crushing room, should probably still be reduced by DR.

So, basically, you want to make your poison needle traps using admantine, silversheen needles.

 

[irdeggman]

So then should DR apply to crushing damage or similar? That is the character is being crushed by a ton of rocks?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I would apply it.

Of course, unless you have ungodly DR, a ton of rocks will be more than enough to easily overcome it.

 

[BSF]

Yes, even a Balor with a CR of 20 only has DR of 15. Pretty tough overall, but enough rocks falling on it will still hurt, a lot.