• NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.

I'm gonna run The Tomb of Horrors for level 15-17 chars...

PhantomNarrator said:
As some others have already pointed out, you need to give serious consideration to the relatively greater resources a high level 3.5 party will have. You will have spellcasters trying to convert the whole dungeon to mud, or use divination and similar magic to work around the deadlier traps. Then there's always the great likelihood that one of your players will already be familiar with some of the surprises.
Well, you could always buff up the demon guardians that appear if you try to bypass the usual channels of the Tomb.

Or you could permanently center (1) an Astral Psychic Storm, (2) an Ethereal Cyclone, and (3) a Shadowquake on the Tomb. >=)

Player: "I Blink to try to walk through the wall!"
DM: "Something feels wrong somehow. Are you sure?"
Player: "What, you're giving me metagame info to help me out? Nah, I go..."
DM: "No, your character feels something wrong. You don't know what because you don't have ranks in Know(Planes), but something is wrong."
Player: "Whatever. Blink."
DM: "...Okay, fine. You're buffeted by winds, pulled through an Ethereal Curtain, and deposited in *rolls* Gehenna."
Player: "...Oh."

Also, those spells that mislead Divinations are there for a reason, you know.

Just make sure you up the damage on lava, falling, and crushing, or the best traps won't have their flair.
DM: "THE MITHRAL VAULT SPRINGS UP AND CRUSHES YOU! YOU TAKE... oh, uh, 20d6 damage."
Barbarian: "Crap, I've only got three rounds to cut myself free!"
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Thomas Percy said:
This adventure is deliberate TPK, so there are no levels such high you can't play it.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Obviously you have never played it with non-idiot PCs or never read through it. It's only a TPK if you run around touching everything you can.

Celebrim said:
For all of its reputation for lethality, many of the traps in ToH are startlingly easy to evade and there is (at least in the original module as written) no proactive presence in the tomb that would thwart PC's from undertaking virtually any sort of plan.

It occurs to me that the Tomb is meant to show stupid, overconfident players what for. Of course, if you are not stupid and overconfident...the Tomb is an easy thing take on.
 
Last edited:


VirgilCaine said:
It occurs to me that the Tomb is meant to show stupid, overconfident players what for. Of course, if you are not stupid and overconfident...the Tomb is an easy thing take on.

Errr.... that's not what I said.

As written, the Tomb is basically unwinnable for a party, if by 'winnable' you mean defeat Ascerak knowing nothing about the contents of the adventure. The adventure is an 'easy' thing to take on only if you have read the 1st edition entry on demi-lichs and have made extraordinary preparation based on that. For the parties of sample characters in the back of the book, the Tomb is an absolutely certain death trap.

Now, if all you want to do is tour the Tomb, provided you are paranoid, you can do that with minimal player deaths. But it generally would not occur to a smart party capable of doing that to not challenge the demi-lich and try to 'win'.
 

VirgilCaine said:
Obviously you have never played it with non-idiot PCs or never read through it. It's only a TPK if you run around touching everything you can.

"Only" is much too strong a word here.

Digression...

When the topic of the ToH comes up, there are posters ready to jump to the conclusion that unhappy results are surely the result of bad players. That is sometimes true, no doubt.

OTOH it is also true that the ToH clashes with the preferred adventure style of many DMs. FREX, some DMs like to "keep things moving" and will pull out the DM Fiat hammer to force the PCs along. Such a bad habit is surely going to precipitate bad decisions regardless of how careful the players attempt to be.

Some DM habits that are legitimate campaign style variations are pure death when mixed with ToH.
 


Celebrim said:
As written, the Tomb is basically unwinnable for a party, if by 'winnable' you mean defeat Ascerak knowing nothing about the contents of the adventure. The adventure is an 'easy' thing to take on only if you have read the 1st edition entry on demi-lichs and have made extraordinary preparation based on that. For the parties of sample characters in the back of the book, the Tomb is an absolutely certain death trap.

I've run the Tomb as a one-shot on many occasions. Parties have had various degrees of success. Only one party successfully won the adventure, IMO:

After collecting the keys, the party became stymied when they reached area 23: They opened the door, triggered the trap, and saw that it was yet another frickin' false door.

This, coincidentally, is a very common experience. No party I have ever run the adventure for has ever bothered to search the wall behind the door to discover the secret passage. As a result, experiences in the Tomb generally fall into one of two categories: Careless or unlucky parties who die very quickly and more careful and meticulous groups who avoid obvious dangers or even questionable situations. The latter usually make it to area 23, become stymied because they don't know where to go next, and end up backtracking and doing all the risky things they had wisely bypassed before... and this eventually ends up killing them.

In the case of this party, the first risky thing they tried was going through the magic archway at 10A. They didn't do this in the best possible way, but they did manage to mitigate the damage so that only some them were naked when it was all said and done.

And then they got clever: They guessed that their items might not have been destroyed, so they cast locate object and got a direction-finding on where their missing items were. And then they went to work with stone shape spells. (Note that this does not trigger the demons: Only ethereal or astral travel triggers the demon visitations.) They eventually hit the mithril vault and weren't able to get inside.

(This was actually me screwing them to some degree: (a) It would have been reasonable to assume that the north end of the vault would be open so you could tunnel right into it. (b) The module makes no mention of the mithril being warded, so there would have been many ways for them to punch right through the mithril. I generally play perfectly fair with this module, since anything else defeats the purpose and the fun of it. But, in this case, I decided that this was simply a situation that had never been considered and concluded that these were not unreasonable defenses given the general architecture and nature of the Tomb.)

Stymied by the mithril vault they tunnelled around for a bit and eventually broke into area 32. They did some more tunneling and got into areas 28, 29, and 30. This gave them access to all three keyholes, which allowed them to eventually work out which keys went to which locks.

This allowed them to lower the vault. (IIRC, they actually suspected a trap with the last keyhole and TKed the key in order to avoid any risk of being crushed.) They grabbed their gear and held back on hitting the ghost to see what it would do (and, thus, discovered that it apparently wouldn't or couldn't harm them).

Then they got stupid and greedy: One of them touched the skull. It soul-sucked two of them, then a spellcaster threw up a wall of stone that blocked the demi-lich into the far-side of the vault. They shovelled the rest of the treasure into their bags of holding and skedaddled.

They did not destroy Acererak, but they did defeat him. And they escaped with the treasure.
 

VirgilCaine said:
It occurs to me that the Tomb is meant to show stupid, overconfident players what for.
Preferring a kick-in-the-door style doesn't mean the players are stupid. It's just a play preference. I've gamed with hundreds of different people and I've never once met a stupid player. Stupid people are very, very unlikely to play D&D imo.
 


JustinA said:
I've run the Tomb as a one-shot on many occasions. Parties have had various degrees of success. Only one party successfully won the adventure, IMO...They did not destroy Acererak, but they did defeat him. And they escaped with the treasure.

I was here defining 'defeat' to mean, "Destroying the demi-lich and recieving the 100,000 XP bonus for doing so."

Getting in and out with the treasure is certainly possible. As I said, it's comparitively easy to just take a tour of the place if you are careful about it.

I've only heard of one party that sounds like they could have legimately destroyed the demi-lich using the resources in the module, and that's the one that put the crown on the skulls head and then touched the incorrect end of the scepter to it. And even then, unless they'd already lost a character to experimentation with the crown, that sounds like metagaming based on what the party knows of the text of the module (which is I'm convinced what actually happened in that case). Even so, that's the only way I know of to truly 'win', and it involves what some might consider generous ruling from the DM (since the module does not explicitly say that the crown effects Ascerak himself, but that it doesn't explicitly say that it does not).

Incidently, I'm also convinced that the 'Bellock' approach to tomb raiding -as your 'successful' party did - is the best approach here as well. Going all 'Indy' in the Tomb is too much risk. It can be done, but excavating the tomb is safer yet.
 

Into the Woods

Remove ads

Top