D&D 4E I'm really concerned about 4E

[Mercule]

I'm looking forward to seeing the 4e rules, and I hope they will be great, but I already know that I will probably not go back to buying lots of materials beyond the three core rulebooks, and I'm OK with that.

This is me, too. I'll be original three, only. At least for the most part.

New releases will get a hefty review from me. If Binders or Shadowcasters are redone, I'll get that book. If psionics are redone, I'll get the book so long as it doesn't have crystals, tattoos, and ectoplasm, otherwise I'll finally part ways with psionics. Other concepts will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis and all but those that really wow me will get passed.

DI might get my money if the chargen and GM tools rock or if the content of Dragon and Dungeon are excellent. Of course, I generally think print media is dead, anyway. Other than Dungeon, I've actively avoided magazines and newspapers in favor of Internet content for years, now. People who subscribe to the newspaper confuse me.

 

[Odhanan]

So don't worry...check out the core books when they come out and see if that is the way you want to go. If not, stay with 3.5. I don't think you'll be alone if you do.

I'll be buying the three core books. That much is sure. I'll give 4E, the system itself, a chance, and I expect it to not suck. Whether I would use it is another matter entirely, but I think I would at the very least plunder it for 3.5 house rules. Really, my concerns are not about the system. It's how the business model, everything that surrounds the game, which I'm interested in just like I love the game itself, running it and playing it, that worries me. I'm not crying for doomsday, I'm worried given the selected beans that have been spilled so far.

When I first saw the "WotC firing their customer" post I chuckled and thought it was just a wee overboard. I'm no longer laughing.

I have had exactly the same experience with the exact same post.

I don't understand those statements. Why would you buy something if you think you're not going to be interested in it.

You don't understand, my friend, because that's not what I'm saying at all. I wish I would be all excited about 4E, about the DI, about everything else. I'm not. And further, I'm getting the impression that I'm "being fired".

Sure I'll always be able to play edition X of D&D. I don't have to buy what I don't like.

That's not what I'm talking about though. Can't you see it?

I think I see what you are trying to say; you want 4e to be so good that you can't help yourself but buy just about everything they offer up. Unfortunately, what you have been seeing so far is not making you quiver with anticipation at getting your hands on all that D&D goodness. You will buy the 3 main 4e books, but you fear that you will feel a lot of buyers remorse if you keep purchasing WotC products because it won't be material that really appeals to you. Is that right?

Yes, close enough.

I wouldn't feel remorse because I wouldn't buy something I don't like, like virtual minis, WTF indeed (though again, I'll buy the core books), but it makes me sad to think that D&D would become something I just don't feel is D&D anymore, and that we would have to part our ways as a result. I think you get what I mean.

If so, I can tell you I understand just where you are coming from - it happened to me with 3e. I bought the core books, I have enjoyed playing 3e, but whenever I bought another book from WotC, I felt...underwhelmed; look, more PrCs that don't make sense, more feats, more "power-ups." The new materials just didn't make me want to rush out and try all the new stuff right away. It hit the point where I stopped buying more materials. I felt a little lost for a while as others kept buying books and discussing them. After a while I grew used to the idea that I was not playing D&D on the "cutting edge."

I'm looking forward to seeing the 4e rules, and I hope they will be great, but I already know that I will probably not go back to buying lots of materials beyond the three core rulebooks, and I'm OK with that.

So you already made your peace with it because it already started with 3E.

I love 3rd ed. But I read what you write here under a new light, beyond the nitpicking about "but PrCs are fine" and stuff like that. I see what you mean beyond the example. That scares me to think that Eric Noah would be right, that it's all part of aging, that sooner or later, we'll all meet the edition that makes D&D unrecognizable for us.

It's like I'd be fired from the coolness of the "cutting edge D&D", to steal your expression.

Indeed, I'm not laughing any more.

 

[Odhanan]

On the other hand, if you're really a completist, then you can rejoice with 4E. Your collection of 3.5 books will be done. Just stick with them.

That's a (mildly) comforting thought. Seriously. I don't think I'm advocating for completism, as you put it - I just would like to keep being "in" with D&D, but I just wouldn't keep up with something I wouldn't like. It's about passion. Interest. Hobby.

 

[Khairn]

But the real question on my mind is the digital initiative and how (not) participating will affect my game.

Exactly. I know that WotC is claiming the DDI is unnecessary, and it would be suicide for them to claim otherwise. But with the potential profit to be made and the chance to get off of the feast/ famine RPG sales rollercoaster, and get secured monthly subscription $... it's clearly in WotC's best interest to make the DDI as much of a necessity as they can.

When I look at the EN World front page I saw a quote from Chris Thomasson's blog about the chance of doing adventure paths in the near future. In his response he points out the need to have a plan that will enable them to "leverage the technology".

That's a term that pops up quite often. If WotC is focused on leveraging the technology whenever it can, what impact could that corporate direction and philosophy have on the development of the game? What about on the support which is such an intregal part of the D&D experience?

I know that this is as clear as mud, but its been a perception that has been voiced on numerous boards with the only response being made "You won't need the DDI to play the game." But if the game is being developed to be played with content that has been leveraged to take advantage of technology, and you don't use that technology, aren't you getting just a fraction of the game?

 

[Odhanan]

I agree. I too am wondering how not buying into the DI would affect my games.

Or perhaps, more precisely, I'm wondering how it'll affect the shared experience that D&D is. Will it split the shared experience between those who go DI and get the big picture and those who don't? How long before we're treated as cheap asses who just "don't love the game enough" or just "don't get the game anymore"? Dragon and Dungeon mags were/are a huge part of the shared experience. The split on DI means in large parts a split in the experience itself, from where I stand at least.

 

[DonTadow]

On a sidenote, why do all of these DI technology is evil threads remind me of the last episode of the office where Michael believes that the new blackberrys and websites will cause the end of the world.

 

[Odhanan]

On a sidenote, why do all of these DI technology is evil threads remind me of the last episode of the office where Michael believes that the new blackberrys and websites will cause the end of the world.

"These DI technology is evil" threads? Don, seriously. If you don't like the thread, you're certainly not forced to read it, and not forced to post in it either. So don't threadcrap in here, please.

I'm not saying "DI is evil". If you can't go beyond the stereotyping of someone else's opinions that wouldn't happen to be yours, best not to post at all.

 

[Eosin the Red]

Whizzle sticks never had much of a place at our table top. Sure, we tried a few but other than character generators they all seemed to add clunkiness to the game rather than streamline it. I quit d20 for a simpler game - Hero System. I am better able to make up NPCs on the fly in Hero than d20... who'd of thunk it? With 4E on the horizon, I like what I see so far.

Each iteration of D&D changes the concept of the game - I am here to tell you that 1E, 2E, and 3E are not the same animal in different skins. You can't even simulate 3E characters in the previous editions beyond mid-level play (10th level of so). Are they all D&D? Sure. They function in entirely different pathways but the essence of the game remains even if the influences have changed.

I am looking forward to what 4E brings but it is possible that I won't like it when I dig into the book. We'll just have to see. If not, there is still Hero.

 

[Grog]

Dragon and Dungeon mags were/are a huge part of the shared experience.

You had to pay for those when they were in print format too, you know.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I agree. I too am wondering how not buying into the DI would affect my games.

Or perhaps, more precisely, I'm wondering how it'll affect the shared experience that D&D is. Will it split the shared experience between those who go DI and get the big picture and those who don't? How long before we're treated as cheap asses who just "don't love the game enough" or just "don't get the game anymore"? Dragon and Dungeon mags were/are a huge part of the shared experience. The split on DI means in large parts a split in the experience itself, from where I stand at least.

But Dungeon and Dragon sold to a decent, but small, portion of the market. Did you notice a split? Did you deride others as "cheap asses who didn't love the game enough," because they didn't subscribe? Who do you fear will treat you this way? WotC? I promise, they won't refuse to sell you a book just because you didn't buy the previous three releases.

As I said eariler, I've been through this. It took a mindshift that for me happened to apply to more than D&D. I no longer cared as much about the perception of others based upon my stuff. I no longer felt a need to "keep up with the Jones." I can still participate in these forums, and I can still play D&D because the rules that I know (the core rules) can be used no matter how many supplements and options others are using.