D&D 4E I'm really concerned about 4E

[hexgrid]

But if the game is being developed to be played with content that has been leveraged to take advantage of technology, and you don't use that technology, aren't you getting just a fraction of the game?

I think that this "fraction of the game" will be just as much game as we're getting in 3e. Without the DI, you'll just be missing out on what amounts to accessories- things like character generators, searchable databases, and digital terrain files. The game itself is still the rulebooks.

 

[Odhanan]

But Dragon and Dungeon are part of the D&DI. You could, in theory, subscribe to D&DI, only read the magazines, and not use any of the other features.

So, since Dragon and Dungeon cost money before, and will cost money now, I'm not seeing what's changed other than the format. Were people who didn't subscribe to the magazines before treated as cheap asses who just "don't love the game enough" or just "don't get the game anymore"?

I guess not.

It's making me feel that way though.

From what I see of e-Dragon so far... that's not remotely the same thing as the old magazine. I was actually reading the letters of the readers. The news, the ads, the magazine, you know? That's not because you have "Ecology" or "Bazaar of the Bizarre" that you have Dragon. Layout on a website is not the same thing as layout on a page. Reading a PDF is not the same as turning the pages of a magazine on your couch. The smell of it, the touch of it? God, just writing this, I really feel like I'm a has-been, now.

I mean, it's great some of you can really rejoice in the advent of e-Dragon and just love the possibilities it offers. I know it's early to call it one way or another, but what I'm seeing so far just does not excite me one bit. I hope it changes over time, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[JVisgaitis]

For example, they want PHB1, PHB2, and PHB3 to all be considered "core". So, in order to sell *all* those books, they are "holding out" some races or classes to be used in later volumes.

That doesn't bother me so much. I'm sure a bit of it has to do with holding things back, but I don't get the sense that they are first and foremost intentionally deciding to hold stuff out until later books. If I don't get those classes or races, no big deal. I'll do the rules myself.

One thing we do agree on, I'm not very happy about the whole preview book thing. I have a sour taste in my mouth about that, but I'm not all up in arms because I haven't seen them yet. As long as they are reasonably priced and they offer me something I'll be purchasing them, but it does seem like a slick move and I don't like that.

Second, as mentioned, the DI nickel-and-dime potential:

You said it yourself, potential. Its not like we know any of these things as facts. I think people are way to quick to judge. I'm not saying people don't have the right to have opinions or anything like that, but I think its silly when people are getting bent out of shape because something has the "potential" to be bad.

 

[DaveMage]

One thing we do agree on, I'm not very happy about the whole preview book thing. I have a sour taste in my mouth about that, but I'm not all up in arms because I haven't seen them yet. As long as they are reasonably priced and they offer me something I'll be purchasing them, but it does seem like a slick move and I don't like that.

You said it yourself, potential. Its not like we know any of these things as facts. I think people are way to quick to judge. I'm not saying people don't have the right to have opinions or anything like that, but I think its silly when people are getting bent out of shape because something has the "potential" to be bad.

Correct - and you are right - it may all be much ado about nothing.

However, the flip-side is, of course, that if something has not been decided, any gnashing of teeth now *can* potentially make a difference.

But in the end, it's up to WotC to do what they think is best for them. We can only watch and complain.

 

[Odhanan]

I think its silly when people are getting bent out of shape because something has the "potential" to be bad.

Yes, you're right. That's not like there's any precedent regarding e-Tools, 3.5, Greyhawk retired, Dragon and Dungeon being pulled from print... wait... :\

Sure, getting all crazy about it while we don't have all the facts would be over the top, but not voicing your opinion when you feel something bad is going on is worse. If opinions, worries, questions do matter, it's NOW, of all times, that they do matter, before all things have been set in stone (or they already are, in which case the all "we haven't decided this or that" or "we're still working things out" is all bogus).

 

[DaveMage]

Sure, getting all crazy about it while we don't have all the facts would be over the top, but not voicing your opinion when you feel something bad is going on is worse. If opinions, worries, questions do matter, it's NOW, of all times, that they do matter, before all things have been set in stone (or they already are, in which case the all "we haven't decided this or that" or "we're still working things out" is all bogus).

Copycat!

 

[Odhanan]

Copycat!

Copycat!

 

[darkseraphim]

If I'm going to be sold virtual minis, I either want (a) the ability to legally resell them, or (b) preferably, the ability to import image files into a 3D modeling program for changing as I see fit. A tie-in to NWN2 would be nice there.

When I buy real minis, I can trade them, re-sell them, customize them, use them in other games, etc. If there's any restrictions on this, then they had better be cheaper than real minis by a factor of 10. At least.

 

[Gundark]

I think of it as a (sad?) part of growing older.

I think Eric nailed it on the head. I'm in my 30s now and I don't get all rabid over games anymore. Do I still enjoy playing? Yep you bet. I think it's okay to feel the way you do. 4e appears to have address my problems with 3e so I'll switch, however I'm not dying to get a hold of the rules.

OTOH are you experiencing rpg burn-out? Is it just D&D? Or all rpgs? Maybe a break is in order.

 

[Psion]

Correct - and you are right - it may all be much ado about nothing.

However, the flip-side is, of course, that if something has not been decided, any gnashing of teeth now *can* potentially make a difference.

But in the end, it's up to WotC to do what they think is best for them. We can only watch and complain.

So you still have hope, eh, DaveMage?

I, on the other hand am of the mindset, to quote a great diplomat, "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote." I get the impression from industry pundits that there is pressure to put out this edition from above. These are different times now than on the eve of 3e, where WotC was owned by a man with a vision for 3e seemed genuinely interested in making D&D a better game. The current effort is under the different leadership, with a company whose game design staff has been plowed under since 3e came out, and which is now owned by a larger corporate entity. David Noonan has already pontificated on how what the audience says will not be heeded. The PHB manuscript has been delivered, we are told, and the only function playtesting will serve at this point is to catch bugs, not make major changes in direction.

As the good Eric said upthread, due to the OGL, 3e can still evolve and enjoy support. That thought is sounding better and better.