I'm sick of Kickstarters

[Mercurius]

OK, I can buy the idea that Kickstarter isn't as much a faddish bubble as it is a new business model. So here's my next question: As POD tech becomes easier and easier, how will Kickstarter be impacted? Or to put it another way, why do Kickstarters need to factor in print runs at all? Couldn't they completely tease out the print part and have people pay upfront for the creative and layout work, which would then include any PDFs, and then have a separate stage for POD hardcopies? That just seems like a better model: It allows people to invest and get the PDF, but then separates out the cost of print books into a book option. Or is it because they don't want people bypassing the first round so they can only "get the goods" in the second?

 

[Parmandur]

OK, I can buy the idea that Kickstarter isn't as much a faddish bubble as it is a new business model. So here's my next question: As POD tech becomes easier and easier, how will Kickstarter be impacted? Or to put it another way, why do Kickstarters need to factor in print runs at all? Couldn't they completely tease out the print part and have people pay upfront for the creative and layout work, which would then include any PDFs, and then have a separate stage for POD hardcopies? That just seems like a better model: It allows people to invest and get the PDF, but then separates out the cost of print books into a book option. Or is it because they don't want people bypassing the first round so they can only "get the goods" in the second?

Print runs are cheaper than POD, and Kickstarting a print run lets them get copies in stores to find customers the old fashioned way.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

Here's a secret: You can completely ignore Kickstarter campaigns.

If they campaign is successful the product generally comes on in normal stores after it's complete. Just pay attention to the stores you always used to.

 

[beholdsa]

Print runs are cheaper than POD, and Kickstarting a print run lets them get copies in stores to find customers the old fashioned way.

This is exactly it right here.

 

[L R Ballard]

Print runs are cheaper than POD, and Kickstarting a print run lets them get copies in stores to find customers the old fashioned way.

Who are the "them"? Distributors and retailers who back a Kickstart?

 

[ccs]

Some of the disappointing ones, I got a goodly amount of material and after reading it, had little to no desire to actually use any of it

Hmm, I've bought stuff from WoTC that easily falls into that category....

2) One was a super duper deluxe reprint of a very old product I was familiar with (but did not own) along with a heap of newly designed play content (through stretch goals and all in print format) It was a massive amount of material, plus some trinkets and dice. It took awhile to fulfill, a bit longer than they stated- but the quality and amount of material for the $ spend was big. The company realized they could no longer offer that much in the future (and interestingly enough- they later produced one of the 5e adventure KSers that soured me on KS'ing any future products I would be going into blind).

So you're upset that the company actually did what they were supposed to? Use KS to fund a project & then actually produce it.... ????



Myself? I think KS is a useful enough tool.
*A few years ago I backed a board game that ultimately failed.
*Like you, I've backed some RPG stuff that ended up kinda meh. All was not lost though as I gave it away at a Christmas gift exchange. I consider I received better than I gave.
*I backed a batch of zombies/zombie hunter minis - I wasn't worried I'd get burnt on this as I've bought from the company direct before. About the worst that would've happened is the project wouldn't fund & the world would be denied a 70's era Elvis armed with a mac10 & a bunch of other Hollywood characters as zombies/z.hunter minis. Or that it'd take the company a lot longer to release them. Fortunately
*I backed a minis game called "Blood & Plunder" by Firelock. Very cool looking 28mm pirate game. It just arrived today so I have a lot of minis & several resin boats + a 200 page rule book waiting for my next day off. Just examining the pieces & book everything looks good. Even if the rules end up meh, or the rest of the group doesn't like the game, I'll still have a slew of good looking pirates & boats for use with other games. So $ well invested.
*Last up is a little knickknack I recently backed. Guy mapped the Milkyway galaxy into a glass sphere. It's pretty neat looking. I wish it were a bit bigger, but as is it'll look cool on my desk. It funded, so here's hoping it doesn't fail to launch.

 

[Parmandur]

Who are the "them"? Distributors and retailers who back a Kickstart?

The publisher who wants to expand their fan base, sorry for the vague grammar. PDF and POD distribution are one newer business model, but Kickstarting a fill print run still has value to a producer.

 

[L R Ballard]

The publisher who wants to expand their fan base, sorry for the vague grammar. PDF and POD distribution are one newer business model, but Kickstarting a fill print run still has value to a producer.

No need to apologize. Thanks for clarifying. The argument for print helps me to understand what may make a print run beneficial. Honestly, I wasn't distinguishing between print and POD before this thread. I surmised that a Kickstart would 1) fulfill print orders through drivethrurpg and 2) help to determine demand for the POD printer.

 

[Jhaelen]

They mean products which would never have existed can now exist. I love it.

I agree that without kickstarters a lot of interesting products would never get produced, but I really don't love kickstarters, I just consider them a necessary evil.

I have the most experience with board game kickstarters, and for them there's a single (not so) 'secret' recipe for success: include as many gorgeous minis as possible.
This noticeable shift in priorities is something that worries me, because designing the actual game that utilizes these minis in some way often seems more of an afterthought rather than the focus of the kickstarter campaign. It's a trend that makes it difficult for games that are actually well-designed but lacking in the 'shiny' department to get noticed.

I supposed that for RPG kickstarters there's a similar 'secret' recipe.

 

[fuindordm]

I'm very glad this funding model exists. And it's not much different from the funding model for business start-ups, just on a smaller scale.

Re. the pathfinder video game KS, I funded that one but only at the level to get the Emerald Spire PDF (which was delivered, and is a pretty good adventure). I wanted to support the venture, but didn't particularly care whether or not the video game was a success since I knew I wouldn't have time to play it anyway.

Otherwise I've funded the ADOM resurrection campaign (very happy with the outcome), Phoenix (I love Keith Baker's work, and the game is beautiful and fun to read... whether or not I manage to play it), WOIN (again, very happy with N.E.W. and looking forward to OLD), and a couple of others. The $1 RPG hasn't delivered yet, but I believe Jim Pinto will be able to finish it.

The only KS that didn't deliver anything was the Goblins card game. Oh well, I didn't put that much into it.

So I guess my strategy is this: I'm happy to risk up to $20 on an unproven creator if I like their related work and/or the project looks really interesting. I'll pay full product price ($70-$100) for the work of proven creators and products like Phoenix, 7th Sea, and ADOM. And with this strategy, so far I don't feel like I've gotten burned.

Ben