I'm sick of Kickstarters

[darkrose50]

Mostly I fear them never sending me what I pledged for. I am okay with some delays.

I backed Shadows of Brimstone in 2014, and I am still waiting for some product. I am okay with this. Their were a quite a bit of stretch-goals. The deal was crazy good, and came with plethora of content. All the extra stretch goals needed to be designed, play-tested and made. As near as I can figure for ~$500 a MineCart pledge level has an MSRP of ~$2,115. I just need to wait for it.

 

[Shasarak]

Now all that said, if we want to have a serious conversation from this, my question would be: what next? Will the kickstarter bubble burst or is this simply how things are done now and for the foreseeable future? Or will there be another approach on the near horizon?

Now that WotC is essentially out of the book publishing game I find Kickstarter is fabulous. So many good products being produced out there by seasoned pros like Kobold Press, Rob Schwalb and Monte Cook Games but also by other newer designers like Mike Shea, Owen Stephens, Mike Myler and Silver Games.

 

[dco]

By going straight to the customers, risks are reduced on the business end so risks can be taken creatively instead.

That's the problem for a lot of people, all the risk goes straight to the customers, there is no guarantee you'll get the product, you are investing blindly, most of them are delayed, etc. Most people know there is a risk, happens, but when they lie with launch dates, with shipping prices, etc they get annoyed.

 

[Morrus]

That's the problem for a lot of people, all the risk goes straight to the customers

Sure. Nobody wants risk. It's $20 risk to each customer or a life-changing bank loan to the creator. You make your choices. It's not a problem, though. It's just a choice.

 

[TheSwartz]

I just checked my KS profile, I've backed 181 projects. 110 of those are from the category of "gaming", of which I'd estimate ~85% of those are for physical gaming products (rather than video gaming or solely PDF versions of RPGs). Further disclosure, about 50% of those, I've backed at very high levels (for example, I've sunk > $10k into Dwarven Forge KS1-4 alone), however the other 50% I've probably only backed a single $1. On a similar note, I follow 10 Patreons, but only back one of them (EN5ider!)

As of now, there has only been one KS that fell through and didn't produce what they had advertised. That project did refund people, but they didn't have to according to the KS TOS. There has been one other project that has yet to produce, but last I checked, they're still working on it, it seems they may have gotten in over their heads but should produce in the end.

I just wanted to share random thoughts, in no particular order:

I actually agree with the OP. In that it does get a little annoying to see "Back my KS for this latest greatest widget!" all the time. I really do see your point. However, as with anything in this world, It just "is what it is" and these are the modern times. Maybe think of it no differently than all those goofy advertisements in the old Dragon magazines? In both circumstances, you do get bogged down with trying to decide what is actually worth you spending your money on.

The fact that crowd funding has led to a Renaissance in RPG cannot be understated enough. If you think about this intersection of people growing to an age to be interested in "OSR" along with the ubiquitous access to internet/social media/VTTs/Print on Demand, and along with the crowd-funding aspect to pay for small studios (or individuals) == this is why we have what we have right now, and I think it's overall a good thing.

I do wonder if crowd funding will lead to a similar collapse as was seen with the OGL glut of D20.. but of course it's all different without the physical products taking up space on shelves at your FLGS, etc. Will be interesting to see how it works out 10 years from now.

I back a lot of KS for only $1. I don't really know why I do that. I think I just like seeing people put an effort into making a cool idea a reality. And since it's not something I do, (occupationally, I'm a worker, not a creative type) then I hope that my little tip makes it a smidge easier for those creative people, even if I don't want to back fully at that time.

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE seeing my name in credits. I pay a premium every single time I get a chance just to see that. I'm a total sucker for it. Probably goes back to the point I just made above.

There have been a few KS that I didn't realize would be cool, so didn't back (I'm looking at you Kobold Press), but later on discovered that they do really great stuff. Even though I didn't back a first or second project, I've since learned about them and am now a big fan. So, even if you don't put money into these things, sometimes it's a good source of learning about new RPG stuff.

Lastly, I'll get some hate for this, but probably the one thing I like most about KS RPGs is that I don't see as much of an emphasis on catering to political correctness. If you want an old school type of product with all the childish testosterone driven humor and art from the "good old days", then you can do that so long as you get enough backers to support you. In the end, crowd funding offers more choice, and again, I think that's a good thing.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

2) One was a super duper deluxe reprint of a very old product I was familiar with (but did not own) along with a heap of newly designed play content (through stretch goals and all in print format) It was a massive amount of material, plus some trinkets and dice. It took awhile to fulfill, a bit longer than they stated- but the quality and amount of material for the $ spend was big. The company realized they could no longer offer that much in the future (and interestingly enough- they later produced one of the 5e adventure KSers that soured me on KS'ing any future products I would be going into blind).

What company was this out of interest?

 

[Olaf the Stout]

In addition,they often now give retailers big breaks on KS pricing vs. "regular" customers to get funded which is another sore spot with me.

This seems an odd thing to get upset about as retailers get big breaks on pricing for all the stuff they buy.

It's like getting upset that supermarkets buy their food at half the price they charge their customers or that department stores pay a lot less for TVs than what they actually sell them for.

It's basically the Kickstarter creator's way of trying to throw a bone to retailers by not completely cutting them out of the distribution chain.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

I've backed 96 Kickstarters so far (plus another half dozen Indiegogo campaigns). I've been fortunate so far in that none of my projects have completely failed. There are a few that were/are horribly late (the Paranoia Kickstarter being the biggest one for me at the moment), but they even those look like they'll still deliver in the end.

So I'm not sure if I'm lucky, or if I'm good at picking reliable creators or sensing when a Kickstarter looks too good to be true. It's probably a little bit of all 3.

Personally I'm a fan simply because it has allowed me to get items that wouldn't have otherwise been produced. The biggest one in that category is Tact-Tiles. It was a product that went OOP many years ago. Without the critical mass of Kickstarter funds, I'm not sure any more would have been made again as the goal was $90k to get them funded (and it raised $128k).

$90k is a lot of money for a single person to risk on a project that there simply may not be a market for. Kickstarter lets creators test the waters, without the risk of spending a massive amount of money in advance.

Is it the way all new products should be made? No.

Does it put more risk on consumers compared to traditional publishing methods? Yes. However, I am aware of those risks up front and can make my decisions accordingly (by either not backing, or taking advantage of the lower prices offered via Kickstarter compared to retail).

 

[JeffB]

This seems an odd thing to get upset about as retailers get big breaks on pricing for all the stuff they buy.

It's like getting upset that supermarkets buy their food at half the price they charge their customers or that department stores pay a lot less for TVs than what they actually sell them for.

It's basically the Kickstarter creator's way of trying to throw a bone to retailers by not completely cutting them out of the distribution chain.

The difference is that the products have not been produced yet.. In a traditonal model,fine...the company and the retailer are taking the risk upfront.. In KS I now take the risk up front, and my $ are not as valued as the retailer who participates, even though we are both making it happen for the company/product.

 

[JeffB]

What company was this out of interest?

Goodman.