Imagine, no Battlemat...

[BryonD]

I love my Tact-Tiles! That being said, my experience is that there is some real truth to the fact that miniatures and maps shift the thinking to mechanics and away from the drama. I really wish there was an easy way to overcome that.

Sorry for the hijack:

Hey Hjorimir, have you dropped out of the Slavelords game?

On topic:
I remember playing 1E without minis and somehow learning that some people used them. It was like a light went on and I've never gone back. I've certainly played without many times. It just depends on where, when and who is in the game. But if it is up to me, we use a mat.
Not trying to start the argument up either, but I find it speeds things much more than it slows them. When someone tries to start counting squares it is easy to interupt and point out that they don't have time for that. In my current group it isn't a problem. On the other hand, I find that players not seeing the situation leads to miscommunication and instances of of "Oh, I didn't know that, well I'll do something else instead...."

 

[Maggan]

We don't use maps, and the DM (me) adjucates AoO, Range, Reach, etc.

Now and then we make an auciliary sketch of a situation, but generally, no battlemaps for us.

Same for us. Using the Rules As Written, when I can remember it.

The players help the DM out, even when I/he forgets monster attacks and stuff like that. It's a good group.

/M

 

[painandgreed]

Very few of the games I play in, D&D or otherwise, use battlemats or minis. Occationally, we'll break them out for large complicated combats but usually, it's left to the visualization we have in our heads and you learn to ask certain questions like "If I move over by the evil wizard, can I get an AoO if he tries to run?" personally, I like to see the combats going on so when they happen in games I run, everything gets drawn out on graph paper with letters and numbers that get erased and redrawn as they move representing people.

 

[Nebulous]

personally, I like to see the combats going on so when they happen in games I run, everything gets drawn out on graph paper with letters and numbers that get erased and redrawn as they move representing people.

Isn't that what using the battlemat does? Mine just has a plastic overlay for easy erasure of colored pens. I use it mostly for combat, but the rest the time is for drawing in impromptu rooms, glyphs, signs, etc... Just a big sheet of erasable paper between me and the players.

 

[jmucchiello]

I say this time and again and no one really ever argues with me (so I don't know if it really matters) but the higher in level you go, the less you use the battlemat. Maybe its because there aren't a lot of folks on this board that play high levels but I say most assuredly that yes, you can live without the battlemat.

I've played D&D on a battlemat or grid since Basic and 1E. Can't stand playing without them. It leads to too many arguments about "I though he was there".

And the PCs in our game are now 21st level and I have yet to have a combat that would have been sped up or more interesting if we had not used the battlemap. In 2e we had lots of battlemap battles take place with our 14-16th level characters (Retired on the switch to 3e). Level has no affect of whether or not a battlemap enhances play.

 

[Xombie Master]

Imagine? I do that every game I run. I find battle mats make players less descriptive, so I stopped using them. Works for me.

 

[tetsujin28]

Can we live without the battlemat?

Sure. But it's a pain in the butt to do so. And in general, I wouldn't want to.

The exception is if we're using homemade terrain (and we have lots), and just use a scale of 1" = 5'. But I'll admit that the whole idea of playing D&D without minis turns me off to no end.

 

[painandgreed]

Isn't that what using the battlemat does? Mine just has a plastic overlay for easy erasure of colored pens. I use it mostly for combat, but the rest the time is for drawing in impromptu rooms, glyphs, signs, etc... Just a big sheet of erasable paper between me and the players.

Yep, but battlemats take up too much room and miniatures cost too much. If I had a full sized table to play games on that would hold a battlemat and tons of money to buy all the miniatures I wanted or needed as well as the space to store them, I'd probably prefer to use a battlemat. Instead I opt for the 5 square per inch desktop sized pad of graphpaper that complety takes up my small coffee table, and even then it's only worth clearing off everybodies books and snacks when there is a big battle. As for minis, I just stopped and thought about how many minis I'd have to buy or trade to run Keep on the Borderlands and decided it just wasn't worth it.*

*Although I've actually been playing the D&D Miniatures game recently and it is almost fun enough for me to look at getting minis except that I'm dumping all my money in the Axis & Allies Miniatures game.

 

[scourger]

Recently, I've used an "end roll" of blank newspaper that I got from my local newspaper's loading dock for a couple of bucks. It's great. You can write and spill all over it and then just recycle it when the game is over. I think it works nicely with minis (for d20 or Savage Worlds). It just seems to avoid the "checkers" maneuvering that the 1-inch grid fosters. For distances, I keep a small tape measure and a 6-inch ruler in my pack (almost feels like playing Warhammer--no measuring distances but you can check line of sight!).

I've tried to get the other DM to use it, but he hasn't embraced it (even though he got the 1st end roll). He uses an easel pad with a 1-inch grid pre-printed on it. Looks like a giant pad of graph paper. These are great, too, especially for pre-drawing maps. I've got 2 as they came in a 2-pack; about $20 for 100 sheets total, I think. My buddy bought a piece of thin plexiglass that he uses as an overlay, which he really likes (but I don't). It is nice to be able to write everyone's initiative number on it for combats (my idea).

I've also scanned and printed big maps as muli-page posters using my computer & all-in-1 machine. That has worked well, too. There is a lot of trimming & pasting to get it all on one sheet of cardboard. I would love to have actual poster printer, one that enlarges a standard piece of paper to poster size; but they're a little too pricey.

So yeah, I can live without the Battlemat. I got rid of mine in favor of the above-listed stuff. But, I wouldn't eliminate minis. They help our games. I played RPGs for years (about 20) without them, and they are a significant improvement. I really like painting them, too. When time is short (and it usually is) I use counters, toys, or whatever is handy.

 

[Shemeska]

Running high upon a deep depression

We fought some, but the whole thing folded after a while, because everyone said we couldn't do it without some kind of visual representation of what squares our guys were in and what-not.

[very much joking]Take care of them before they get out and infect the rest of the gaming populace with their lack of imagination. Remember, if there's no body, it's not a crime! [/very much joking]

So, this is all a roundabout way of speculating about the possibility of d20 without miniatures. Is anyone doing it? Do you just get rid of attacks of opportunity or what? Or can you keep AoO and still do without knowing where the 5 ft. squares end and begin? Or, more generally, do you need a slimmed down, reworked d20 system or just the same game and more imagination?

Can we live without the battlemat?

You said it there, "same game and more imagination"

I've never once used a battlemap or minis in my 5 years of gaming. Ever. All that drek about 'where do I know where I am and where AoO are, can I flank, can I get X and Y within my spell area', that's just some combination of not having a good DM and clutching the rules like a child with their security blanket. None of those issues have ever come up in any game I've played in.

If asked by the players I'll draw a map to indicate positions and terrain, and that happens once in a blue moon with complex terrain or lots of opponants, but it's outright silly to me to think that some people can't function without a grid. Cripes, have some imagination, it's a roleplaying game, not Mechwarrior.

As for "I thought he/she/it was there...". -Ask the DM-
Simple answer and takes two seconds of time. That's what the DM is there for, keeping everyone on the same page as to where things are. It's not all that hard to realize folks.

You can't get immersion if you're using a grid and minis, they're like oil and water in my experience.