Immediate Actions *can't* be used when flat-footed?

[Someone]

Those events don't cause you to become flat footed: they make you lose your Dex bonus to AC, which is quite different as Hypersmurf points above. Regarding flatfootedness, there are just two options: either you're flat footed except in combat, or somehow the start of combat makes you to become flat footed (maybe because every character is busy rolling initiative?)

 

[Diggus Rex]

Traps with attack rolls using your flat-footed AC is a FAQ ruling, nothing more. It simply suggests that being hit by a trap with an attack roll is like being attacked in the surprise round, not that you walk around flat-footed all the time by default.

So you're saying that a character going about their daily business is dodging, ducking, and weaving (using their Dex bonus to AC) but relaxes when someone they're unaware of attacks them; then when they can react go back to their normal state of defensive manuevers?

 

[irdeggman]

Original source trumps everything except errata. There hasn't been errata on that spell, so you can use feather fall anytime because the description of the spell says you can.

True, except that if you are using Immediate actions the definition of them (in CA for example) specifies that feather fall is not an immediate action and not a free action.

Since the new action (Immediate Action) definition contains the specification that feather fall has changed then it now changes.

If, however, you are not useing immediate actions then the spell work exactly as written.

This is a new rule and thus can change old ones if used.

 

[Caliban]

So you're saying that a character going about their daily business is dodging, ducking, and weaving (using their Dex bonus to AC) but relaxes when someone they're unaware of attacks them; then when they can react go back to their normal state of defensive manuevers?

No, that is what you are trying to make it seem like I'm saying.

 

[Diggus Rex]

Caliban, I dont need to make you say anything.

I want you to show me where I'm wrong in deducing that outside of combat, which is obviously before your next turn in combat, you're flat-footed.

 

[Caliban]

Caliban, I dont need to make you say anything.

I want you to show me where I'm wrong in deducing that outside of combat, which is obviously before your next turn in combat, you're flat-footed.

I really don't like the negative vibe I'm getting here. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Squire James]

First of all, I would read the rule as "Immediate actions cannot GENERALLY be used when flat-footed" (in fact, MOST rules have that silent "generally" in there, in my opinion) and then work out specific exceptions to this rule. Feather Fall, in order to be useful at all, clearly needs to violate this rule. Similarly, a Trap Sense ability applies specifically to something that's normally a surprise situation, so I would make an exception for it as well. If the trap also does a Quickened Summon Monster spell, then the character would be flat-footed with regard to that monster... and gain an bonus against the trap's other effects because of Trap Sense.

On the other hand, the "Moment of Perfect Mind" ability appears to be based off Concentration, which suggests the character has to be aware of the threat and able to take a Moment to make his Mind Perfect. Therefore, it would make sense that the ability not be available if the character was not aware of the threat. Furthermore, if the ability were meant to be used all the time, it wouldn't be worded in a way that suggests it takes an action at all. Therefore, it seems to be designer intent that the ability NOT be usable at certain times, such as when surprised by a trap.

In short, a Symbol of Insanity SHOULD have a fair chance on working on just about all level 8 characters. Level 15 casters should be able to do stuff like that!

 

[Christian]

I want you to show me where I'm wrong in deducing that outside of combat, which is obviously before your next turn in combat, you're flat-footed.

Can you show where we're wrong in deducing that when you're out of combat, you're not in combat? That's the part of the contra position that seems most difficult to me ...

 

[Diggus Rex]

Christian, I cant show you that because you're not wrong. When you're not in combat, you're not in combat.

Alls I'm saying is that when you're not in combat, I believe your AC is you're flat footed AC -- because outside of combat you're flat-footed. Acting in combat, reacting to the dangerous situation you find yourself in, is what brings about your full AC therby removing your flat-footedness.

 

[irdeggman]

First of all, I would read the rule as "Immediate actions cannot GENERALLY be used when flat-footed" (in fact, MOST rules have that silent "generally" in there, in my opinion) and then work out specific exceptions to this rule. Feather Fall, in order to be useful at all, clearly needs to violate this rule. Similarly, a Trap Sense ability applies specifically to something that's normally a surprise situation, so I would make an exception for it as well. If the trap also does a Quickened Summon Monster spell, then the character would be flat-footed with regard to that monster... and gain an bonus against the trap's other effects because of Trap Sense.

Or you rule traps and their consequences follow the rules of actions that a character does and that, in the case of falling, a character falls on his turn - not continuously.

Ruling it this way makes feather fall work just fine as an immediate action.

Since on a character is no longer flat footed when it is his turn, barring special effects - he can then use an immediate action (like casting feather fall).