Immediate Actions *can't* be used when flat-footed?

[Caliban]

They still do. Trap Sense doesnt require an Immediate action.

Except that you lose any dodge bonuses to AC along with your Dex bonus when you are flat-footed... and a 3rd level rogue does not have Uncanny Dodge.

 

[mikebr99]

Except that you lose any dodge bonuses to AC along with your Dex bonus when you are flat-footed... and a 3rd level rogue does not have Uncanny Dodge.

So... the moral of this story is that Rogues should stand still til their 4th level.

Mike

 

[Christian]

He didn't jump, though.

-Hyp.

So? Are you suggesting that falling victim to a trap allows you to move when it's not even your turn? There are specific situations (eg. when being bull rushed) where the rules allow movement on another character's action. But this doesn't appear to be one of them. When the pit trap open under your feet, you no longer have any movement options other than 60' straight down; but you wouldn't start that mandatory movement until your next action.

And no, you can't Delay.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So? Are you suggesting that falling victim to a trap allows you to move when it's not even your turn?

You're not moving, you're being moved. How far you fall is unrelated to your speed. It's much more akin to being bull-rushed than to jumping.

-Hyp.

 

[Diggus Rex]

But it's a Dodge bonus, lost when Dex bonus to AC is lost, such as when a 3rd level rogue (but not a 4th level rogue) is flat-footed.

-Hyp.

Good point, I had to go to the FAQ which does agree with your read.

The wording of trap sense describes it as an intuitive sense, i.e. transcending normal awareness. From this, I'd change it to a +1 insight bonus to AC, rather than rewrite flat-footedness.

IME, making it a dodge bonus was yet another editting error from WotC.

 

[Nifft]

From this, I'd change it to a +1 insight bonus to AC, rather than rewrite flat-footedness.

Except that Insight bonuses don't stack. Let's just make it an unnamed bonus.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hypersmurf]

Good point, I had to go to the FAQ which does agree with your read.

You don't need the FAQ - it's in the Core Rules.

Dodge Bonuses
Some other AC bonuses represent actively avoiding blows. These bonuses are called dodge bonuses. Any situation that denies you your Dexterity bonus also denies you dodge bonuses. (Wearing armor, however, does not limit these bonuses the way it limits a Dexterity bonus to AC.) Unlike most sorts of bonuses, dodge bonuses stack with each other.

or

Dodge Bonus
A dodge bonus improves Armor Class (and sometimes Reflex saves) resulting from physical skill at avoiding blows and other ill effects. Dodge bonuses are never granted by spells or magic items. Any situation or effect (except wearing armor) that negates a character's Dexterity bonus also negates any dodge bonuses the character may have. Dodge bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC, even other dodge bonuses. Dodge bonuses apply against touch attacks.

-Hyp.

 

[Diggus Rex]

Mistyped, it's not 'your read' but a quotation of RAW.

I went to the FAQ to see if they resolved the problem with Trap Sense giving no AC benefit against surprise traps. They havent.

I chose an insight type bonus because it best fits the description of the ability, isnt lost with flat-footedness, and is a named like the dodge type it replaces. When I house rule I like to stay as close to the RAW as possible to not disturb other parts of the system.

 

[irdeggman]

You're not moving, you're being moved. How far you fall is unrelated to your speed. It's much more akin to being bull-rushed than to jumping.

-Hyp.

When, in the initiative round would the distance a character who is falling be resolved?


The rules make it pretty clear that movement is resolved descretely, not continously. So whther it is character movement or distance falling it is to be resolved at a specific point in the initiative order.

IMO that leaves only two options.

1. Roll initiative for the trap - and at the point in the initiative order the falling is resolved

2. Use the falling character's initiative as the point in the initiative order to resolve the falling distance.

There are precedents for using both. Most on going spell effects are resolved on the caster's initiative. Some effects, however have the "affected" character make his roll at the start of his action in the initiative order.

Both options are equally legal, IMO, but using the falling character's initiative is easier and makes things more visually acceptable, IMO.

 

[The Souljourner]

if we decide that - screw it! - immediate actions CAN be used when flat-footed, then we open up an even larger can of worms (E.G. performing an immediate action while flat-footed would remove the flat-footed condition).

Well, part of this could be fixed by just rewording how you lose flat-footedness to something akin to "When a combat starts, you are flat footed until the beginning of your first turn. If you are surprised, you instead stay flat footed until your first turn after the surprise round." That way it has nothing to do with "acting", only matters when your turn occurs (which is pretty much the intention).

For the second problem of [not] being able to use immediate while flat footed, I suggest simply tacking on "this may be used while flat footed" to those immediate actions that are appropriate to being used while flat footed (or vice versa if you think most of them should be usable while flat footed). Problem solved.

-Nate