Immediate Reaction & Twin Strike

[Oompa]

This could be a fairly easy answer but it was buggering me

If someone has the ability to shift one after a missed melee attack, and a ranger attacks with his twin strike and misses with his first attack..

Is the person allowed to shift? Or not? Twin Strike is two attacks, in one standard action..

 

[ValhallaGH]

Is the person allowed to shift?

Yes.
Take that TWF fanboys!

Have fun.

 

[chitzk0i]

The text of immediate reaction on PH 268 specifically addresses this. Yes, an immediate reaction shift would let you avoid the second attack.

 

[tiornys]

Actually this is a matter of DM interpretation. It basically comes down to this: if the DM allows you to pick the target of your second attack after the first attack resolves, then the creature should be able to shift away between attacks (and you should be able to target something else). If the DM requires you to declare both targets before making the first attack roll, then the creature shouldn't be able to shift away until after both attacks.

You can make arguments for other interpretations, but then you're getting into inconsistencies with the term "attack" and its multiple definitions in the PHB.

t~

 

[Oompa]

Actually this is a matter of DM interpretation. It basically comes down to this: if the DM allows you to pick the target of your second attack after the first attack resolves, then the creature should be able to shift away between attacks (and you should be able to target something else). If the DM requires you to declare both targets before making the first attack roll, then the creature shouldn't be able to shift away until after both attacks.

You can make arguments for other interpretations, but then you're getting into inconsistencies with the term "attack" and its multiple definitions in the PHB.

t~

Can you explain to me why you see two options?

 

[Samir]

Actually this is a matter of DM interpretation. It basically comes down to this: if the DM allows you to pick the target of your second attack after the first attack resolves, then the creature should be able to shift away between attacks (and you should be able to target something else). If the DM requires you to declare both targets before making the first attack roll, then the creature shouldn't be able to shift away until after both attacks.

You can make arguments for other interpretations, but then you're getting into inconsistencies with the term "attack" and its multiple definitions in the PHB.

t~

I'm not sure this matters, since the PHB specifically says

If a monster has a power that lets it make two attack rolls against you as a standard action, and the first one hits, you can use an immediate reaction before the next attack roll.

RAW, regardless of how the DM lets you choose targets (which is a separate discussion), you can take an immediate reaction to respond to a single attack made by a multiattack standard action.

 

[tiornys]

Hmm, yeah, got this conflated with the debate over whether you could Twin Strike someone marking you and someone else and avoid the mark penalty, and forgot that the PHB had specific language addressing this situation.

t~

 

[UltimaGabe]

Personally, I think this a rule that encourages slowing down gameplay. As a player who always wants to keep the game moving, I tend to roll all attacks at once (in the case of multiple targets, I use different colored dice and declare which one is which). In fact, everybody I've played with who's played a Ranger has rolled both Twin Strike attack rolls at the same time, with no declaration of which die is the first attack or the second (unless they're at different foes). With this kind of an option, it'd kinda requiring the players to roll one die, calculate the result, ask the target if they'd like to use their immediate action, resolve that, and then roll the second die.

Not that this is a bad rule- it's dealt with exactly as the mechanics should be- but it does slow down the game. It slows down the game exactly like, say, requiring a Wand Wizard use Wand of Accuracy before he knows whether the attack hits or not.

 

[Samir]

Personally, I think this a rule that encourages slowing down gameplay. As a player who always wants to keep the game moving, I tend to roll all attacks at once (in the case of multiple targets, I use different colored dice and declare which one is which). In fact, everybody I've played with who's played a Ranger has rolled both Twin Strike attack rolls at the same time, with no declaration of which die is the first attack or the second (unless they're at different foes). With this kind of an option, it'd kinda requiring the players to roll one die, calculate the result, ask the target if they'd like to use their immediate action, resolve that, and then roll the second die.

Not that this is a bad rule- it's dealt with exactly as the mechanics should be- but it does slow down the game. It slows down the game exactly like, say, requiring a Wand Wizard use Wand of Accuracy before he knows whether the attack hits or not.

Conversely, I think allowing multiattackers to declare their target before each attack makes it more fun for them, so they don't waste attacks on already dead targets. If speed is a problem, have them roll damage simultaneously with each attack.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

Personally, I think this a rule that encourages slowing down gameplay. As a player who always wants to keep the game moving, I tend to roll all attacks at once (in the case of multiple targets, I use different colored dice and declare which one is which). In fact, everybody I've played with who's played a Ranger has rolled both Twin Strike attack rolls at the same time, with no declaration of which die is the first attack or the second (unless they're at different foes). With this kind of an option, it'd kinda requiring the players to roll one die, calculate the result, ask the target if they'd like to use their immediate action, resolve that, and then roll the second die.

I don't think it needs to slow things down. I play a ranger and have made the blanket declaration that if it would ever matter, my blue die is my "first" attack even though I roll them both at the same time.