Immobile rule and Bands of Steel

[Lopke_Quasath]

The spell Bands of Steel, pg 24 of the Spell Compendium, states

"The victim must succeed on a Reflex save or be immobilized and thus unable to move."

What does immobile mean?

Immobile according to the Grapple rules, with a pin, state:

"When an opponent has pinned you, you are held immobile (but not helpless) for 1 round. While you’re pinned, you take a -4 penalty to your AC against opponents other than the one pinning you."

So for grappling, immobile means a loss of AC and that's it. No Dex penalty, nothing.

However, the condition "Helpless" states,

"A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy."

The description of the spell says the victim is unable to move. Thus, he is bound, right?


So, long story short, how do others rule the spell Bands of Steel?
Is the victim helpless? Does the victim only have a penalty to AC? A Dex penalty (for at least allowing sneak attacks, etc)?

Thanks for your time.

 

[Stalker0]

We ruled no dex, -4 to AC, but not helpless.

 

[frankthedm]

I like stalkers' ruling.

Though I could see the FAQ, Errata or Ask Wizards saying 'helpless'.

 

[pawsplay]

Unable to move seems to mean something specific. I would say not helpless or paralyzed.

 

[Deset Gled]

I would rule that this spell has exactly the same effect as Iron Bands of Binding (which has also been debated before, without anything resembling a consensus).

Iron Bands of Binding: When initially discovered, this very potent item appears to be a 3-inch-diameter rusty iron sphere with bandings on the globe.
When the proper command word is spoken and the spherical iron device is hurled at an opponent, the bands expand and then contract to bind the target creature on a successful ranged touch attack. A single Large or smaller creature can be captured thus and held immobile until the command word is spoken to bring the bands into spherical form again. The creature can break (and ruin) the bands with a DC 30 Strength check or escape them with a DC 30 Escape Artist check. Iron bands of binding are usable once per day.
Strong evocation; CL 13th; Craft Wondrous Item, grasping hand; Price 26,000 gp;Weight 1 lb.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

Tome of Magic has an answer.. of sorts.

The section on Shadow magic has a sidebar on p. 140 that lists a new condition: immobilized.

An immobilized creature can attack and cast spells normally, but it cannot move from the square or squares it is in. It doesn't prevent the creature from defending itself so no Loss of Dex to AC occurs.

It then goes on to explain that flying creatures don't fall - they can descend peacefully and those that can hover still can.

So, there is a listing of the condition now, you just have to know which obscure reference book to look in!

J from Three Haligonians

 

[Lopke_Quasath]

Well, that description from Tome of Magic won't work for the spell.

Bands of Steel involves a saving throw. If the save fails the victim is immobilized. If they succeed on the save, they are entangled.

The Tome of Magic version of "immobilized" would then imply that there are NO penalties when you are totally stuck, but when you MAKE the save, you suddenly have penalties to attack and Dex, and have to make Concentration checks when casting spells.

Wow, I would voluntarily fail my save against Bands of Steel to get a better result.

Something is wrong there.