Immortals Handbook Epic Bestiary (now available)

[historian]

Hey U_K!

Watch that potty mouth son.

Thats what I thought, but I want a good spread of examples, not just a Rogues Gallery.

Good idea since the main thrust of the work is to allow people to actually play Deities.

Time Lord...applying the previously mentioned modifiers...CR in the thousands probably.

Nice.

High Lord...I don't even want to contemplate it until I have the stats all finished.

It?



Incidentally I was working a bit of math trying to proxy one possible CR for HOU Thanos. By rough estimate I would guess that the HOU would give one virtually all of the Transcendental and Omnific abilities. Using a x2 multiplier for Transcendental abilities and a x10 multiplier for Omnific, and assuming 50 Transcendental and 25 Omnific, I came up with a rough estimate of 225E40 CR (200 * multipliers).

Wild stuff I tell you.

 

[Fieari]

Tangent: I've got the bug of wanting to stat out a really high CR creature again, and after looking at someone else's (small thinking) take on Death, I want to give the fellow a try. I'm thinking that, for starters, he could probably make use of the Amidah template, but beyond that I'm not sure, and thought I'd ask you guys. A simple awakened skeleton base, or should he be a lich instead? Lich True Necromancer? What CR should I be gunning for...

 

[Saerynishar]

Well, you sure as hell want him to have more than ninety hit points, but attaching the amidah template will take care of that. I'm not actually sure that amidah is appropriate, but I suppose that depends on exactly what incarnation of death you're intending to stat out.

A mid epic death would probably be a paragon dread wraith with the sunlight vulnerability removed or somehow compensated for. I like the idea of a wraith representing death, because the wraith has always been to me the quintessential malevolent and ghostly undead.

High epic/ cosmic death might be an amidah dread wraith, maybe with either another template or a couple of class levels. Not 100% sure what levels.

 

[historian]

Tangent: I've got the bug of wanting to stat out a really high CR creature again, and after looking at someone else's (small thinking) take on Death, I want to give the fellow a try. I'm thinking that, for starters, he could probably make use of the Amidah template, but beyond that I'm not sure, and thought I'd ask you guys. A simple awakened skeleton base, or should he be a lich instead? Lich True Necromancer? What CR should I be gunning for...

Fieari, my take on this is largely influenced by the Comic Books and U_K's sidereal classification. I believe she (he) is probably a First One. As such, I would think the only template you would need would be the First One template.

If I were statting Death I would aim for ECL in the range of 480 to 560 with a corresponding CR of 320 to 375 (WoTC) but I could see how reasonable minds could differ.

If you go with Death as a First One you'd have to make some determination as to what Dimension she's linked with. I think Entropy and Fate would be the most likely with Spirit being another possibility. Personally, I would go with Fate.

I would probably classify Death as an Outsider as opposed to Undead simply because I don't think the Undead vulnerabilities dovetail with a being of Death's majesty. I also believe that it's implicit in the Epic Bestiary that Sin likely created Undead which would subordinate Death to Sin which is inappropriate. It'll be neat to see how U_K handles this stuff.

You could do a subordinate Death-type, i.e. the Angel of Death or whatnot. I would guess such a being would be an Intermediate or Greater Deity with the Outsider Type.

 

[paradox42]

I agree with Historian on Death's type, and a Cosmic deity would seem to be appropriate for the entity. However, if you do really want undead, the most obvious template to me is one U_K did himself in the Bestiary- forget Wraiths or Ghosts or other lesser creatures. Go for the throat with an Akalich, and add Amidah if you're really feeling mean. Look at what the Akalich has- incorporeality, kills even Immortal souls, able to smash pretty much any non-Epic or low-Epic creature without a second thought, and so on. The one disadvantage is that by the rules for what you can apply the template to, this means Death must be a spellcaster, but who says you can't ignore those rules for this one special critter?

 

[Fieari]

Hm. I think I'll leave Death himself to U_K for the moment, lacking First One rules, and just go for a nice Angel of Death, commonly mistaken for Death himself. This death would be suitable for GMs wanting to use, say, a Deck of Many Things in a high-epic campaign, where I'd imagine such a deck wouldn't actually be as game breaking as in a sub-epic game. For the true Death, I agree with Fate being a possible dimension for him, although Byss has already been suggested for Death's home. Remember, Sandalphon might be conspiring with Ouroborus to seperate Byss from the rest of the diminsions and ending all death?

In terms of the Angel though, Intermediate Deity by HD sounds like a fair choice to me. You might stave him off with the head of a pantheon, or a concentrated effort of many Intermediate (given that he's an Amidah). I'll aim for about 75 HD.

I do like the idea of a Dread Wraith... but... on the other hand, saying "Angel of Death" makes me now think to fall one of U_K's angels first... an advanced or otherwise templated or classed Malakim looks the bill. And I do want to make it Amidah... well, we'll see how it looks in a bit.

EDIT: Wait, you're right... Akalich... hm. An Akalich Malakim? I could forget Amidah at that point...

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

I think U_K has death covered... In the Epic Bestiary Volume 2... You could use Thanatos though While technically one of the four horsemen, as more of a symbol of destruction rather than death, he could work fine.
As much as it would be fun to stat a high CR creature right now, it might be best to just jot down an overview of it's power range right now, because once Ascension comes out, we will have 400+ powers to give creatures. I think thats the best part of The Handbook itself - Even if you arn't running an epic game, the powers make for good monster abilities (Even for non-epic monsters. if scaled properly), and the artifact rules (Artifacts that emulate a divine salient ability would certainly feel cool, even if it is only slightly better than Finger of Death 5/Day) will let one build an interesting campain setting.
As for the Angel of Death, If you use the BoED, theres an assassin-type class in there that can kill with a touch. Throw ten levels of that, and say 10 levels of rogue on a Solar, and you have quite a lethal Angel of Death (Oh, and give back solars their +5 Dancing Vorpal Greatswords, they have had them from at least 2nd ed, and I think it was lame they were removed in 3.5)

 

[Fieari]

Eh, crunching the numbers is just fun. And the current Death statted out on the wiki is just pitiable. It's something to do on my day off.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey U_K!

Howdy!

It?

Is Challenge Rating a he or she, I thought it was an it.

Incidentally I was working a bit of math trying to proxy one possible CR for HOU Thanos. By rough estimate I would guess that the HOU would give one virtually all of the Transcendental and Omnific abilities. Using a x2 multiplier for Transcendental abilities and a x10 multiplier for Omnific, and assuming 50 Transcendental and 25 Omnific, I came up with a rough estimate of 225E40 CR (200 * multipliers).

Wild stuff I tell you.

Just as long as I don't have to do the stat block.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Fieari mate!

Tangent: I've got the bug of wanting to stat out a really high CR creature again, and after looking at someone else's (small thinking) take on Death, I want to give the fellow a try. I'm thinking that, for starters, he could probably make use of the Amidah template, but beyond that I'm not sure, and thought I'd ask you guys. A simple awakened skeleton base, or should he be a lich instead? Lich True Necromancer? What CR should I be gunning for...

The design question you want to ask is "Do I have a target CR?" or "What am I basing this monster idea on?".

You don't seem to have decided on either. 'Death' is about as ambiguous as you can get.