Immortals Handbook Epic Bestiary (now available)

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

The problem that Paradox was having, and perhaps others as well, seems to be this:

Paypal, our credit card processor, doesn't appear to want to accept Visa Debit cards (perhaps other debit cards as well, but visa seems for sure). When testing, I assumed it didn't want to take my debit card because - well - it's a paypal debit card. I'm not sure why this is, but it just seems to be the case. For those having the problem, I suggest using paypal itself to make the purchase. (As an asside, it saves us about 25 cents if people use paypal instead of credit card anyway).

I think I'll make sure and put a disclaimer on the payment method page, but first I need to test if mastercard and/or other debit cards work. This is difficult, being that I don't have any of those to test with If someone else has one and has found problems, please let me know.

Thanks for the help Chris, I am going to post this on the website.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

I'm getting back into the swing of finishing the writing of Ascension. However, one element begs the question simplicity vs. accuracy/detail.

Namely detailing the Divine Retinue.

Now I am not going to explain the details surrounding divine retinues but trust me there are some cool modifiers. However, the point I want to pose is to do with dividing.

Now, as most of you know, in Leadership, when you divide ECL 2 or higher, you round any fractions up. Whereas when we always used this mechanic what you did was round fractions down, but carry them, then when you get down to individuals, every time you rounded down was another individual of a higher level. Basically its about sub-cohorts.

So here are the two examples, using a hypothetical Yeenoghu created by me who has a Leadership score of 82 and 483,600* ECL 1 servants...or petitioners as most people call them.

*and you can guess how he has that many, cos' I ain't saying yet.

Firstly official rules:

ECL 2: 48,360
ECL 3: 24,180
ECL 4: 12,090
ECL 5: 6045
ECL 6: 3023
ECL 7: 1512
ECL 8: 756
ECL 9: 378
ECL 10: 189
ECL 11: 95
ECL 12: 48
ECL 13: 24
ECL 14: 12
ECL 15: 6
ECL 16: 3
ECL 17: 2
ECL 18: 1

ECL 46: Cohort (King of Ghouls 26 HD Quasi-deity?)

Okay, here is my preferred way:

ECL 2: 48,360
ECL 3: 24,180
ECL 4: 12,090
ECL 5: 6045
ECL 6: 3022*(+1)
ECL 7: 1511
ECL 8: 755*(+2)
ECL 9: 377*(+3)
ECL 10: 188*(+4)
ECL 11: 94
ECL 12: 47
ECL 13: 23*(+5)
ECL 14: 11*(+6)
ECL 15: 5*(+7)
ECL 16: 2*(+8)
ECL 17: 1
ECL 18: 1 (Once you get down to a single entry, you add another single entry then add one more for each time you rounded a fraction down)
ECL 19: 1*(-1)
ECL 20: 1*(-2)
ECL 21: 1*(-3)
ECL 22: 1*(-4)
ECL 23: 1*(-5)
ECL 24: 1*(-6)
ECL 25: 1*(-7)
ECL 26: 1*(-8)

ECL 46: Cohort

As you can see, the second method is a bit slower, but the net result is that you gain a list of the immortals lieutenants.

So in the above example, Yeenoghu could include amongst his Lieutenants:

Dregon: Half (Blue) Dragon/Half Gnoll Sorcerer 18 (ECL 21)
Loathar: Glabrezu (ECL 20)
Igluu: Albino Gnoll Cleric 17 (ECL 17)
Surly, Barry & Mo: Three-headed Fiendish Ettin Barbarian 10 (ECL 24?)
A Brobdingnagian Flail Snail (his pet)
etc.

You get the idea.

So the question is, simplicity or a more detail?

Any thoughts?

At the moment I am going with my idea, but does it seem too time consuming for anyone?

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

U_K!
Those numbers look fine... Though, my thoughts jump to the whole Epic-Spellcasting-Follower abuse, using a million 1st level followers each contributing one spell to mitigate an impossible to cast spell down to DC 0... Though any player in my game who tried this would learn quite quickly what haopens when all your followers are in one place, and somebody near by has Cloudkill
As a minor anecdote, the Flailsnail has become a running gag in my current game. If someone comes to a wizard for help, he responds with "I am far too busy studying the mystical Flail-Snail." Eventually after hearing this about 3 times from three seperate mages, the PCs soon asked why mages were so interested in the Flail Snail. The response "There is no Flail snail, silly".
A Macrobe Flail snail would be funny indeed. Lethal, but funny.

 

[Alzrius]

The problem that Paradox was having, and perhaps others as well, seems to be this:

Paypal, our credit card processor, doesn't appear to want to accept Visa Debit cards (perhaps other debit cards as well, but visa seems for sure). When testing, I assumed it didn't want to take my debit card because - well - it's a paypal debit card. I'm not sure why this is, but it just seems to be the case. For those having the problem, I suggest using paypal itself to make the purchase. (As an asside, it saves us about 25 cents if people use paypal instead of credit card anyway).

I think I'll make sure and put a disclaimer on the payment method page, but first I need to test if mastercard and/or other debit cards work. This is difficult, being that I don't have any of those to test with If someone else has one and has found problems, please let me know.

This is a fairly devestating blow. I use a Visa debit card, and so do a lot of other people I know. Using a Paypal check, on the other hand, takes a week to clear, just like a normal check. When I buy something for download, I don't want to wait that long. :\

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Wow I hope the Debit issue is resolved soon.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

This is a fairly devestating blow. I use a Visa debit card, and so do a lot of other people I know. Using a Paypal check, on the other hand, takes a week to clear, just like a normal check. When I buy something for download, I don't want to wait that long. :\

Well I know historian got his problem sorted, but I don't know the details of how exactly, so maybe he or Chris will explain?

 

[CRGreathouse]

For those keeping track at home, it would normally take a Leadership score of 4866 to get 483,600 followers. Yeenoghu would have to gain almost 10,000 Cha to get that score.

So the question is, simplicity or a more detail?

Any thoughts?

At the moment I am going with my idea, but does it seem too time consuming for anyone?

I don't like your idea as written. Consider a character with 65,535 2nd-level followers. By the standard rules, the character will have one 17th level follower (and no higher). By your rules, the character would have one 33rd level follower, I think, and no higher.

Now suppose another character has 65,536 2nd-level followers. The standard rules give this character one 18th level follower -- appropriate, since that character has more 2nd-level followers. Under your system, the character would get no more followers. This gives the character with the lower Leadership score a much more powerful retinue (perhaps a hundred times stronger).

My essential problem is the that the number of time you round is essentially random, and the number of followers is no longer a monotonically increasing function of the Leadership score. (A person could gain a level and lose high-level followers.)

Further, if this system were used for Epic Leadership, it would make a powerful feat even stronger. That probably isn't right.

I don't think the question is one of simplicity vs. detail. That's a misrepresentation; neither system is significantly more complex. Yours does move about more randomly and give many more high-level followers, though. That's the decision that needs to be made.

If you want to give out more high-level followers, I'd suggest just adding (Leadership score / X) to the top, where X is perhaps 10 or 20.

 

[historian]

Hey guys.

Well I know historian got his problem sorted, but I don't know the details of how exactly, so maybe he or Chris will explain?

Happy to explain, but unfortunately my snafu was related to a Pay Pal disparity between my wife's e-mail address and my own. Nevertheless, and for reasons I can't explain, when I clicked on the left of the two icons (under the Pay Pal option at checkout) I was able to get through.

Alzrius, if problems persist I wouldn't mind "fronting" the transaction for you.

 

[Pssthpok]

Thankfully, I paid via credit, not debit.

 

[Twin Rose]

This is a fairly devestating blow. I use a Visa debit card, and so do a lot of other people I know. Using a Paypal check, on the other hand, takes a week to clear, just like a normal check. When I buy something for download, I don't want to wait that long. :\

Let me know if it's working for you still - it might be just a couple of cases, or maybe the gateway company of the debit card, not "visa" debit per se. Also I'm pretty sure that paypal itself will elt you add a 'paypal balance' via debit no problem - I've never tried myself though. Anyway, I'm definately investigating.