Immortals Handbook Epic Bestiary (now available)

[historian]

Ltheb, I believe Algol bears some coincidental resemblance to Azathoth:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=160446&page=4

 

[Fieari]

Interesting that the "Great Old Ones" aren't nearly powerful enough to qualify as one of your Old Ones, and that only the most powerful of the Cthulian gods reach that rank. Very cool.

Incidentally, one of the warmups for trying out Ascention is to stat out the Old Ones from Silicon Knight's "Eternal Darkness" (gamecube game)... Chattur'gha, Ulyaoth, Xel'lototh, and possibly Mantorok, so figuring out where the Great Old ones fit into the power scheme will very likely have to determine where these guys fit. So I'm interested.

In my estimation, Lovecraft wasn't a great writer himself, but the people who were inspired by his work have come up with some fantastic things.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

I thought he had said Azathoth, but I wasn't sure. I knew it was some Lovecraft Diety. Incidentally, in the D20 CoC book, the thing that struck me as funny (this may be just Azathoth Lore in general) is that he is listed as appearing with 1-4 other Elder Gods.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Eternal Darkness was kind of a fun game. I could never survive the secound level (Aztec-ish temple?) The deities in the game strike me as powerful within their own pantheon, but somewhat equal to the power Greek Titans had. Potent in strength (Not necessarily physical), with the ability to destroy the world if released and unchecked, but not completely Omnipotent (If they were, why use minions?)
I would put them at Divine Rank ~10, possibly as High as rank 20. If U_Ks rules are the same as those in Deities and Demigods, then ~10 is fine. But If the powerscale has been tweaked (it probably has in some places) then I think as low as 5 or as High as 20. They should be nasty, but seemingly a few mortals can throw a wrench in their plans.
I don't remember the plot of the game well, but if one of them were more powerful than the rest, throw 6 or so ranks on that one to make him one tier higher.

 

[historian]

Incidentally, in the D20 CoC book, the thing that struck me as funny (this may be just Azathoth Lore in general) is that he is listed as appearing with 1-4 other Elder Gods.

I almost regret never having purchased that book for posterity alone but suffice it to say that I thought Chaosium's system probably better captured the feel of Lovecraft.

Lovecraft though, of course, was writing from the mortal and not the immortal perspective. I don't suppose Dabbat needing any sanity checks before walloping Shub-Niggurath.

I seem to recall WoTC Azathoth being DvR 20 with maybe 80 hit dice. I suspect you would need about 6 of them* to rightly challenge what we'll see out of Ascension.

* this is only an estimate pending playtesting.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Glad you liked it historian dude!

U_K!

Hey there matey!

The stuff you posted for the Old Ones is pretty cool. I definitly like that you put the Lady of Pain at the Old One rank, and didn't opt for what the Planescape gurus tend to say "OMG OVERPOWER! LOL" (Not trying to offend those who like the Planescape setting, but everytime the discussion of the Lady comes up that is what I see )

Yes, the Planescapers do seem a tad blinkered in some regards, notably the Lady of Pain.

Although I should clarify that sidereals are Overgods.

Though I have some questions about Algol
You have said he is very much like a certain Cthulu Mythos Overdiety, does he also bear similar portfolios? I don't read too much Lovecraft (Hardly any... ) but a few sources say that he is a god of Radiation. Is Algol such a god? Or did you put some spin on him?

Well I am always going to put something of my 'spin' on it, but Algol is an occult monstrousity that predates Azathoth but that has a number of similar characteristics.

Also, his race is listed as "Psudonatural." Is he like a Zoa, a specific kind/race if Zoa, (Like a Cogent), or something else entirely?

The term Pseudonaturals is sort of a catch all for Far Place residents. Zoas are a particular type of Pseudonatural (or 4 particular types to be exact) who are basically non-epic monsters.

Can't wait for Ascension. (Though, due to linear timeline constraints, I must)

Indeed.

Eternal Darkness was kind of a fun game. I could never survive the secound level (Aztec-ish temple?) The deities in the game strike me as powerful within their own pantheon, but somewhat equal to the power Greek Titans had. Potent in strength (Not necessarily physical), with the ability to destroy the world if released and unchecked, but not completely Omnipotent (If they were, why use minions?)

I would put them at Divine Rank ~10, possibly as High as rank 20. If U_Ks rules are the same as those in Deities and Demigods, then ~10 is fine. But If the powerscale has been tweaked (it probably has in some places) then I think as low as 5 or as High as 20. They should be nasty, but seemingly a few mortals can throw a wrench in their plans.

I don't remember the plot of the game well, but if one of them were more powerful than the rest, throw 6 or so ranks on that one to make him one tier higher.

I only remember getting to play that game once, I quite enjoyed losing my sanity in it, some neat touches.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Fieari mate!

Interesting that the "Great Old Ones" aren't nearly powerful enough to qualify as one of your Old Ones, and that only the most powerful of the Cthulian gods reach that rank. Very cool.

The key to them could be in the word Great. As I see it most of these creatures are Entities of a pseudonatural (or partially pseudonatural) origin.

Which means they would be, at best, Greater Deities.

The Elder Gods seems self explanatory (although true Elder Gods would be imprisoned, which means any roaming about now are likely Avatars and Aspects of the Elder Gods and would be notably weaker).

Outer Gods would seem to parallel Old Ones in some capacity.

I have all this covered in the Divine Progeny section of Chapter 2. You can work out how powerful the offspring is based on the parents.

...and then of course there are divine abortions...but I am sure no one is interested in hearing about those.

Incidentally, one of the warmups for trying out Ascention is to stat out the Old Ones from Silicon Knight's "Eternal Darkness" (gamecube game)... Chattur'gha, Ulyaoth, Xel'lototh, and possibly Mantorok, so figuring out where the Great Old ones fit into the power scheme will very likely have to determine where these guys fit. So I'm interested.

In my estimation, Lovecraft wasn't a great writer himself, but the people who were inspired by his work have come up with some fantastic things.

I wonder did any of you ever get to see the Necronomicon movie starring Damodar himself (aka Bruce Payne)?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey historian mate!

I almost regret never having purchased that book for posterity alone but suffice it to say that I thought Chaosium's system probably better captured the feel of Lovecraft.

D20 CoC is very good, although I have heard the original Choasism stuff handles the Great Old Ones better.

Lovecraft though, of course, was writing from the mortal and not the immortal perspective. I don't suppose Dabbat needing any sanity checks before walloping Shub-Niggurath.

Interestingly enough Dabbat probably has a few things in common with Hellboy's Ogdru-Jyhad, I like the idea that at a certain point things just go all 'alien-y'.

I seem to recall WoTC Azathoth being DvR 20 with maybe 80 hit dice. I suspect you would need about 6 of them* to rightly challenge what we'll see out of Ascension.

* this is only an estimate pending playtesting.

Algol will 'only' be CR 160 (201 HD), although thats due to him not actually wielding any items...the crazy fool.

I'm still unsure if that imbalance (items/no items) should be addressed or ignored.

 

[historian]

Hey U_K!

Algol will 'only' be CR 160 (201 HD), although thats due to him not actually wielding any items...the crazy fool.

If crazy were a dimension I would guess he would be it.

I'm still unsure if that imbalance (items/no items) should be addressed or ignored.

This is really a tough question from both the standpoint of the flavor and the mechanics.

One possibility is that Sidereals are SO ancient that perhaps in their slumber they've nourished themselves by consuming their artifacts? I'm thinking of the In-Betweener in his prison with the Soul Gem as one example?

I love the flavor so far in the examples we have . . . Galactus, the Seraphim, and Cherubim.

However, it seems distinctly likely to me that a Greater Deity flush with artifacts might get to the point of being 50/50 with even an Old One without.

For instance, Alabaster would stand a good chance as far as I can tell in taking down a Seraphim, albeit temporarily, but only if the Seraphim doesn't benefit from the Scrolls of Divine Holy Knowledge.

Mechanically you could have an artifact table for say Sidereals whereby the Sidereal would roll randomly for an Artifact tied to its alignment.

For those Sidereals clearly not packin' they would be awarded either a unique power representing an artifact they've consumed?

Of course, all that sounds like a bunch of work that may not be worth the investment and most Sidereals likely will have an artifact (e.g. Surtur).

Algol might be in a class by himself in that he's simply too crazy to use a weapon but draws a special measure of protection from both neutral and chaotic Old Ones due to some unnameable virtue.

Interestingly enough Dabbat probably has a few things in common with Hellboy's Ogdru-Jyhad, I like the idea that at a certain point things just go all 'alien-y'.

Cool.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

U_K!
I think the answer to your previous question is neither. I think it may best be solved by noting he has no items, and his true power is less than it could be.
The DMG lists that items that take up no item slot (Like magic tattoos or permenent divine blessings) cost twice as much to create. A DM could simply give him stat/ability bonuses or other "blessings" at half normal value.
Example: If he could normally "own" a set of Bracers of Armor +100, I don't think it would be too unfair to say that he has hardened his carapace/skin/ectoplasm/whatever, effectively gaining a +50 armor bonus. (Though armor bonuses in this case would be somewhat inapropriate)
The benefit is twofold - The monster/deity can gain some "oomph" as far as CR goes, and if the PCs overcome such a being, I don't have to worry about them gaining the "+onemillion sword of whozawhatzit" or the "+alot Shield of totalinvulnerabilitytodamage"
I don't think that as it appears to be printed there is any error with Algol not haveing appropriate arms for his tier, but he probobl seem to be a weakling compared with appropriate PCs.