Immortals Handbook - Grimoire (Artifacts, Epic Magic discussion)

[Farealmer3]

No, its made of iron. Its hardness is always 10. But its hit points (in terms of whats behind it - as in someone driving a tank) would be 1200 in effect DR is hit points for an object here.

So if you dealt 700 damage from a single attack, the iron would sustain a loss of 690 to its hit points (700 - 10 for hardness). It would have a remaining 510.

If you struck it a second time for 700 damage you would destroy the iron vault door(?) and deal 180 damage to something directly behind it.

Now your really not making any sense, you've always used contruct bonus HP for object hp based on size. Now your using hp by inch? The Neutro golem just lost planet buster status.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Now your really not making any sense, you've always used contruct bonus HP for object hp based on size. Now your using hp by inch? The Neutro golem just lost planet buster status.

I have stated many times that there is a discrepancy between official damage progression and official hit point progression (or indeed object hit point progression). Which is why a one ton block falling 10 feet onto you deals 20d6 damage and a 200 ton dragon dive bombing onto you deals about 4d8.

Having a ten foot thick iron door with 60 hit points and hardness 10 is therefore at odds with damage scaling, even if it parallels the hit points advancement of big monsters.

Hopefully its something they can sort out with 4E.

 

[Farealmer3]

I have stated many times that there is a discrepancy between official damage progression and official hit point progression (or indeed object hit point progression). Which is why a one ton block falling 10 feet onto you deals 20d6 damage and a 200 ton dragon dive bombing onto you deals about 4d8.

Having a ten foot thick iron door with 60 hit points and hardness 10 is therefore at odds with damage scaling, even if it parallels the hit points advancement of big monsters.

Hopefully its something they can sort out with 4E.

This ain't an answer, which system do YOU regonize as far as your products go, construct bonus hp or material hp by inch? One system allow the golem to destroy planets the other no so much(because by your rules anything that doesn't do sufficient damage will just have gravity bring the object back together). 300,000 isn't going to do sufficent damage to a 7 billion planet to do that.

 

[dante58701]

I'm a bit confused...

Orichalcum Body grants 15 virtual size categories, thus you inflict damage as though you were 15 size categories larger.

Thus a punch does 80d10 (original 1d4).

But, a sword or a warhammer forged from pure orichalcum only do 10d10 (original 1d8)?

They should do 200x their listed damage, not 12x. You forgot that the tables increase damage a great deal once you reach the d10's.

Example: Warhammer does 160d10, while longsword does 160d10. Or a dagger, 80d10.

How the hell do you figure?

Also, in order to use such materials, an individual's minimum strength should be at least equal to the Strength of the base material in question.

For example, to wield orichalcum, one should have a minimum strength of 232. Otherwise your physics are in defiance of all logic.

This also means the neutronium damage modifier is off for weapons.

It should do 32 virtual size categories worth of damage.

Thus 1d8 would be 61,440d10. Which would make a lot more since considering the materials in use.

Natural attacks should parallel weapon attacks, rather than exceed them by an insane amount.



x12 might be right for the armor bonus, but not for the damage scale.

I think I'll be ignoring the Epic Bestiary on that specific note, it is severely wrong in it's calculations.

The weights are also off kilter.



You have the Orichalcum Golems right, but the Orichalcum Table is really really...off.

 

[Upper_Krust]

This ain't an answer, which system do YOU regonize as far as your products go, construct bonus hp or material hp by inch? One system allow the golem to destroy planets the other no so much(because by your rules anything that doesn't do sufficient damage will just have gravity bring the object back together). 300,000 isn't going to do sufficent damage to a 7 billion planet to do that.

I think its easier to scale materials to fit monsters than vice versa. So that (Construct Bonus HP) would be my preferred method, though remember to use the best available option for such items (generally weight rather than dimension).

A medium sized iron door (2 inches thick) will probably be large for the purposes of determining hit points.

However, I think I may have to review this method of determining hit points (and/or hardness) because it doesn't give satisfying results.

If a tanks main gun is dealing 10d10 (or whatever) then that should be bouncing off tank armour (most of the time).

Which is why Hardness 20, Hit Points 80 technically doesn't make sense. Of course the sloping, and thus AC might come into play, but I am still not totally satisfied with the results. AC 32 for a main battle tank feels funny when a superior fighter can just chop it up with an axe. Its possible that natural armour bonuses (from HD and size) should add to an item (and creatures) hardness.

That would give the main battle tank a DR 44/- (hardness 20, 15 HD, +9 from size: effectively Gargantuan due to one VSC)

Interestingly it would give an iron golem DR 33/- (hardness 10, 18 HD, +5 from size). Although I think that would require you to instigate 4E policy whereby any creature can suffer critical hits (which makes sense given that golems have joints, and generally thinner sections which would be easier to damage).

Stone Golem: DR 21/-
Clay Golem: DR 18/-
Flesh Golem: DR 11/-

Mithril Golem: DR 59/-
Adamantine Golem: DR 83/-

 

[Upper_Krust]

I'm a bit confused...

Orichalcum Body grants 15 virtual size categories, thus you inflict damage as though you were 15 size categories larger.

Thus a punch does 80d10 (original 1d4).

But, a sword or a warhammer forged from pure orichalcum only do 10d10 (original 1d8)?

They should do 200x their listed damage, not 12x. You forgot that the tables increase damage a great deal once you reach the d10's.

Example: Warhammer does 160d10, while longsword does 160d10. Or a dagger, 80d10.

How the hell do you figure?

x12 might be right for the armor bonus, but not for the damage scale.

I think I'll be ignoring the Epic Bestiary on that specific note, it is severely wrong in it's calculations.

The weights are also off kilter.

You have the Orichalcum Golems right, but the Orichalcum Table is really really...off.

Yes I see the flaw. The Orichalcum material table increases in increments of 15 strength (and thus x1.5 base damage) instead of 30 strength and x2 damage.

Pure Orichalcum should be dealing x192 base damage and only be usable by those with Str 235 or better.

 

[dante58701]

Don't forget the 10d10 jump from 8d8, hence 200x base damage rather than 192x base damage. I calculated it straight from the damage tables.

It would have to perfectly parallel the natural attack damage or it wouldn't work right.

 

[Farealmer3]

If a tanks main gun is dealing 10d10 (or whatever) then that should be bouncing off tank armour (most of the time).

10d12, but why is it so important it do that much? A rocket launcher only does 10d6, is a tanks main gun really that much stronger?

That would give the main battle tank a DR 44/- (hardness 20, 15 HD, +9 from size: effectively Gargantuan due to one VSC)

Interestingly it would give an iron golem DR 33/- (hardness 10, 18 HD, +5 from size). Although I think that would require you to instigate 4E policy whereby any creature can suffer critical hits (which makes sense given that golems have joints, and generally thinner sections which would be easier to damage).

Stone Golem: DR 21/-
Clay Golem: DR 18/-
Flesh Golem: DR 11/-

Mithril Golem: DR 59/-
Adamantine Golem: DR 83/-

Are these just musings or are you seriously considering their implimentations? Also i have to ask again why give a tank creature HD when it isn't one?

 

[jedrious]

Are these just musings or are you seriously considering their implimentations? Also i have to ask again why give a tank creature HD when it isn't one?

because he has a chronic need to redo every rule there is based on his knowledge of physics

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

10d12, but why is it so important it do that much? A rocket launcher only does 10d6, is a tanks main gun really that much stronger?

A tanks main gun is more powerful than a typical RPG.

Are these just musings or are you seriously considering their implimentations?

For 3.5 yes.

Not so sure it will work with 4E (after seeing the new Critical Hit Rules), but then again we don't even know if 4E will have Hardness and DR.

Also i have to ask again why give a tank creature HD when it isn't one?

To determine its Natural Armour. Although it should really be 80 divided by 5.5 for 14.8.