Immortals Handbook, what format interests you?

[Upper_Krust]

Hi DMaple mate!

One question does it involve as much 'book-keeping' as Primal Order to track the power your worshippers give you.

Nowhere, near as much.

Its all fairly simple.

You have Faith energy (gained from worshippers) and Siphoned energy* and the total of the two is Divine Power.

*Siphoned energy can also be negative though - such as when you expend it (ie. to create divine powers, cast True Dweomers, create artifacts, create or modify servants/avatars etc.)

I'm not going to explain the mechanics behind gaining (or losing) Faith here ( ), but they are simple to follow and are generally just common sense.

Once you have determined the Faith energy you can easily extrapolate the number of clergy; lay clergy; devoted and typical worshippers (in about 30 seconds, you don't even need a calculator)

There are many ways to gain and lose siphoned energy (eg. killing a deity will gain you 10% of their divine power - much like the 'quickening' in Highlander) but again these are all very straightforward.

Divine Power denotes the status of the deity.
eg. You need 50,000 WP (worship points) to gain the Hero-deity template.

So once you know the basics most of the rest is optional campaign aids and parameters for the DM (expanding faith, starting a new faith, matured faiths, religious relationships) and players (divinity and portfolio templates new spells, powers, artifacts, feats etc.).

So you can really make things as rules-lite or as detailed as you want them.

and if so is it worth including a spreadsheet template to track it?

I am including a few character sheets at the back. These Include a Faith sheet so that players and DMs can detail/flesh out their worship if they so wish.

eg. My Lesser God character Thrin has almost 20 pockets of worship (faiths) spread over a dozen worlds.

 

[LordMelkor{Talos}]

Hi Upper Krust! I voted for PDF because I am so impatient to finally read it! Two questions:

- Have you been ever thinking of making a NPC Priest class? Non-adventuring Clerics are likely to be the vast majority in almost any faith and it doesn`t make sense in my opinion that they are better in fighting than rogues.

-Is it possible for a deity to freely give WPS to other beings? It can be easily abused and it almost eliminates the need for Avatars.

 

[Upper_Krust]

...tried to post this earlier but the boards were having none of it!?

Hi Lord Talos mate!

Hi Upper Krust! I voted for PDF because I am so impatient to finally read it!

I appreciate the support mate!

Two questions:

Sure, fire away.

- Have you been ever thinking of making a NPC Priest class? Non-adventuring Clerics are likely to be the mast majority in almost any faith and it doesn`t make sense in my opinion that they are better in fighting than rogues.

Not exactly but I do have rules for determining the levels of 'temple' clerics and 'adventuring' clerics.

-Is it possible for a deity to freely give WPS to other beings? It can be easily abused and it almost eliminates the need for Avatars.

Sort of. Once bestowed, a deity who wishes to regain such power will only regain 10%.

Also it costs far more WP to create a deity than it does to become one.

eg. A deity needs 5 million Divine Energy WP to become a Lesser Power and it costs 5 million to create an Avatar of a Lesser God (equal to a Quasi-deity).

By the way Lord Talos mate, I haven't forgotten about the Portfolio secondary aspect list. Unfortunately I thought I had it typed out already (so I could just copy and paste), but it turned out I didn't. I'll get to it in a day or so though, not to worry.

 

[poilbrun]

I already posted my opinion on this in the House Rules thread, but I thought I'd give it again here (especially since the thread needs a bump! )...

I would like to have the IH in unillustrated pdf format ASAP so that I can see what your work looks like, but I would then buy the update to have art in the pdf (to make it easier to read on screen). If it is worth it*, I would then buy the book in hardcover.

*When I say "if it is worth it", I do not mean if your work is good enough, which I'm sure it is according to what I've read in the WPS (now IH) threads, but rather if after reading it, I'll still think it's great to play deities. After all, I (and my players) have never done it, and I might not like such a high-level of power... Right now, my favourite levels are from 12 to 16, where the players are quite powerful, but when they still have things to wish for. I mean, until the wizards get level 9 spells, they have a reason to go on adventures. But once they are able to cast anything they wish (especially Wish! ), I usually have troubles to get the campaign going. After all, why would such powerful characters still risk their life? I hope that the IH will give me an incentive to play past level 20, and if it does, I'll probably end up buying the harcover!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi poilbrun mate!

I already posted my opinion on this in the House Rules thread, but I thought I'd give it again here

Appreciate the support mate!

(especially since the thread needs a bump! )...

This thread was only started to gauge reaction to the idea as a whole, which I think it has done.

So I don't mind letting it slide away, I think everyone who would be interested in voting has probably done so.

At the time of writing this it seems that:

(approx.) 1% of ENWorlders would buy the unillustrated .pdf. (35 votes)
(approx.) 0.5% would buy the illustrated .pdf. (19 votes)
(approx.) 2% would buy the hardcopy. (73 votes)

So the questions would be what percentage of the online D&D community does ENWorld represent? My guess is between 5-10 percent given that the wizards message boards have 60,000 members. Though ENWorld is probably representative of about 20% of the .pdf buying market.

The other question would be what percentage of gamers are online, to which you could maybe assume 10%.

So I think all this bodes well for the interest in the work.

I would like to have the IH in unillustrated pdf format ASAP so that I can see what your work looks like, but I would then buy the update to have art in the pdf (to make it easier to read on screen). If it is worth it*, I would then buy the book in hardcover.

Well thanks! I really appreciate it!

*When I say "if it is worth it", I do not mean if your work is good enough, which I'm sure it is according to what I've read in the WPS (now IH) threads,

but rather if after reading it, I'll still think it's great to play deities. After all, I (and my players) have never done it, and I might not like such a high-level of power...

I think it would be worth trying at least, you won't know if you like or dislike it until you do.

Right now, my favourite levels are from 12 to 16, where the players are quite powerful, but when they still have things to wish for.

Once they are introduced to the wealth of options in the Immortals Handbook I am confident they will be interested.

12th-16th level characters may be big fish in a little pond but when they step up to play Immortals they will find they are actually the little fish in the big pond.

I mean, until the wizards get level 9 spells, they have a reason to go on adventures.

True Dweomers slap 9th-level spells about the face.

But once they are able to cast anything they wish (especially Wish! ),

Wish isn't all that and a bag of potato chips!

I usually have troubles to get the campaign going. After all, why would such powerful characters still risk their life?

Divinity/Immortality provides a new set of goal posts.

...and what use is the Queen in chess if you don't use her!?

I hope that the IH will give me an incentive to play past level 20,

I hope so too. My suggestion would simply be to give it a try.

and if it does, I'll probably end up buying the harcover!

Thanks!

 

[LordMelkor{Talos}]

Upper Krust could you tell me what is the CR( or CR bonus in case this is a template) for your Nosferatu monster? I really like vampires, maybe you could present Nosferatu in incoming preview?

 

[LordMelkor{Talos}]

Bump!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Lord Talos mate!

...sorry for the slow response, I wasn't able to post at all last night for some reason!?

Upper Krust could you tell me what is the CR (or CR bonus in case this is a template) for your Nosferatu monster?

The Nosferatu monster is one of my most recent concoctions, as such its only about 75% finished.

Its not a template though.

Base CR (possibly subject to change) was 24.

I really like vampires, maybe you could present Nosferatu in incoming preview?

I don't know if I would include the Nosferatu within any monster preview - primarily because its one I am not yet 100% finished with.

Bump!

Appreciate the love mate!

...but theres really no need for unnecessary bumping.

If someone has a question thats fine; if not its okay to let the thread slip - I think the poll has already accomplished what it was intended to do!

 

[poilbrun]

To what conclusion did you come? I suppose that according the result, things will go as you planned before, I suppose?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi poilbrun mate!

To what conclusion did you come? I suppose that according the result, things will go as you planned before, I suppose?

I am presuming you are refering to the poll (the above questioning seems a little vague)!?

Well, the split for format seems to be about 58% (hardcopy); 26% (unillustrated .pdf); 16% (illustrated .pdf), which is pretty much what I expected.

Regarding sales themselves I anticipated the .pdf might sell about 200+ (which I was told represented good sales figures for .pdfs). If you assume that ENWorld represents even 1/4 or less of the .pdf RPG material buying online market then those figures hopefully hold true.

Obviously interest in the .pdf needs to be reasonable enough to warrant any hardcopy publication.

Regarding the interest in a hardcopy version; 80 votes represents about 2.66% of ENworld, which if we apply to the total market becomes sales in excess of 8000 - assuming global 300,000+ d20 RPG buying market*. So hopefully this will be enough to warrant a hardcopy publication (I am not privy to d20 publishers print runs though, so I am slightly unsure what constitutes a 'good run'!?) I imagine the publishers would watch the .pdf sales figures before committing themselves.

*Ryan Dancey in the online chat a few days ago mentioned that during the slump in the D&D market (between the last years of 2nd Ed. and the coming of 3rd Ed.) there were less than 100,000 people buying D&D products. Obviously 3rd Ed. and the d20 License has invigorated the market somewhat; although my estimate of 300,000+ is somewhat unfounded, though I believe the Core Rulebooks have sold in excess of 500,000 copies (each) so...