Immortals Handbook, what format interests you?

[Zelda Themelin]

Feng Zhu and Stephanie Law would be great IMO, or something similar.

I truly hope you don't fall using art like some in Divane and Defeated (comes to my mind, because it was book about divane too). It's matter of opinion of course, but though most of that art had sort of 'unique personality', few pictures were so out of place and downright stupid-looking it actually affected my respect for certain divane beings (like Hedrara and Corean and Vangal, Chardun and Madriel to name a 'few'). It's always a matter of opinion of course, and I actually loved few others. Oh, well, that the way of opinions.

Mmh, some seem to think playing deities is sort of insane, well, IMO playing elves is, at least me playing one. That's way of opinions too.

Good luck.

 

[Vaxalon]

The fundamental differences between the two is that the Primal Order bases power on realms and has religious roots (power handed from gods to mortals) whereas the Immortals Handbook bases power on worshippers and has atheistical roots (mortals create gods through worship).

One of the fundamental aspects of Primal Order is that worshippers are the primary source of power for deities. Your distinction is slim.

Yes, Primal Order assumes that a deity has some core of deific power that is separate from worshippers, but for any deity described in the book, the vast majority of its power comes from worshippers.

 

[DMaple]

That's not correct from my experience. Having played Primal Order and risen to the Rank of Lesser God. The majority of your Primal Base comes from being a God, the rest comes from owning Planes. Worshippers provide no Primal Base whatsoever.

Primal Base is the building blocks of a diety he can build things with it.

Worshippers only provide Primal Flux used to power the things you build. Even then you are likely to get far more Flux from the Planes you own.

For example Ferrite (Ferros's home plane) has 118000 worshippers on it they provide 343 Primal Flux and no Base.

The Plane itself provides 1000 Flux and 2000 Base.

Admittedly to hold a plane you need Worshippers on it but a God can get by without any worshippers for a short-while.

In fact looking at the figures my priesthood that looks after my worshippers cost me far more than the Flux they provide.

I have 371800 followers spread across various planes providing 1681 flux.

I have 1520 Clerics the majority low-level costing me 2780 Flux. Maintaining a group of Followers is a net loss making exercise at the moment. But then I'm a young god expanding rapidly so I need more Clerics to convert the sheep to my cause.

 

[MythandLore]

I have to vote for 'Hardcopy' illustrated book.
Sorry, a 300 page pdf will make my eyes bleed.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Zelda mate!

Feng Zhu and Stephanie Law would be great IMO, or something similar.

Hopefully we will get some great artist or artists.

If not, I already suggested I may undertake some (or all!?) of the art myself.

I truly hope you don't fall using art like some in Divane and Defeated (comes to my mind, because it was book about divane too). It's matter of opinion of course, but though most of that art had sort of 'unique personality', few pictures were so out of place and downright stupid-looking it actually affected my respect for certain divane beings (like Hedrara and Corean and Vangal, Chardun and Madriel to name a 'few'). It's always a matter of opinion of course, and I actually loved few others. Oh, well, that the way of opinions.

The art in The Divine and the Defeated was disappointing, especially compared to The Wise & the Wicked which is very good throughout, you would have thought S&SS would have made more effort for the larger, hardcover work than vice versa - then again art is subjective I suppose (up to a point anyway).

Mmh, some seem to think playing deities is sort of insane, well, IMO playing elves is, at least me playing one. That's way of opinions too.

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, though I would view those with overtly negative conjecture on the matter as somewhat ignorant.

Roleplaying deities can certainly be criticised subjectively, but not objectively.

Good luck.

Thanks!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi guys!

One of the fundamental aspects of Primal Order is that worshippers are the primary source of power for deities. Your distinction is slim.

Yes, Primal Order assumes that a deity has some core of deific power that is separate from worshippers, but for any deity described in the book, the vast majority of its power comes from worshippers.

That's not correct from my experience. Having played Primal Order and risen to the Rank of Lesser God. The majority of your Primal Base comes from being a God, the rest comes from owning Planes. Worshippers provide no Primal Base whatsoever.

Primal Base is the building blocks of a diety he can build things with it.

Worshippers only provide Primal Flux used to power the things you build. Even then you are likely to get far more Flux from the Planes you own.

For example Ferrite (Ferros's home plane) has 118000 worshippers on it they provide 343 Primal Flux and no Base.

The Plane itself provides 1000 Flux and 2000 Base.

Admittedly to hold a plane you need Worshippers on it but a God can get by without any worshippers for a short-while.

In fact looking at the figures my priesthood that looks after my worshippers cost me far more than the Flux they provide.

I have 371800 followers spread across various planes providing 1681 flux.

I have 1520 Clerics the majority low-level costing me 2780 Flux. Maintaining a group of Followers is a net loss making exercise at the moment. But then I'm a young god expanding rapidly so I need more Clerics to convert the sheep to my cause.

Not having played (only read) the rules I would defer to your collective judgements though my impression was similar to that of DMaple in that Immortality certainly wasn't worshipper-centric derived.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi MythandLore mate!

I have to vote for 'Hardcopy' illustrated book.

Thanks!

Sorry, a 300 page pdf will make my eyes bleed.

The size of the .pdf may be addressed by the publishers!? Thanks for the input!

 

[Vaxalon]

That's not correct from my experience. Having played Primal Order and risen to the Rank of Lesser God....

Your argument is quantitative and mine is qualitative.

Both systems appear, from what I have seen, to have many, many qualities in common.

1. Quantifiable deific power
2. This power is provided (at least in part) by worshippers
3. Deities come in different "levels"
4. Deities interact with mortals personally
5. Deities support clerics
6. PCs can "ascend" to godhood
   [/list=1]
   
   Now maybe any deific rules system would have these things in common (but I doubt it, given what Deities and Demigods is supposed to be like) but to me, this doesn't bode well. I can't say until I've seen the book, but it appears to methat with some purely quantitative, purely mathematical tweaks to Primal Order, something very similar to this book could be arranged.
   
   I haven't seen the book, so I can't say for certain. It's just a suspicion based on what I saw on the boards in the early days of the WPS. I was in the discussion for the first few days, and when I saw how similar to Primal Order it was turning out to be, I didn't bother with it anymore. Things could well have changed drastically in the intervening months. Time will tell.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Vaxalon mate!

Your argument is quantitative and mine is qualitative.

Both systems appear, from what I have seen, to have many, many qualities in common.

1. Quantifiable deific power
2. This power is provided (at least in part) by worshippers
3. Deities come in different "levels"
4. Deities interact with mortals personally
5. Deities support clerics
6. PCs can "ascend" to godhood
   [/list=1]

1. 
   
   Most of the above are staple immortal facets:
   
   Quantifiable deific power - without this you won't be able to roleplay deities, you'll just be telling a story.
   
   This power is provided (at least in part) by worshippers - we have already noted that Primal Order deities do not rely on their worshippers for power which is one of the Immortal Handbook fundamentals.
   
   Deities come in different "levels" - a staple RPG fundamental; character progression.
   
   Deities interact with mortals personally - while many systems allow interaction they certainly don't support it, and the Primal Order is no different in this respect.
   
   Deities support clerics - other than 'granting spells' this is almost never expounded upon.
   
   PCs can "ascend" to godhood - not necessarily a prerequisite of Immortal RPGs unless they are attempting to build on an existing system.
   
   

   Now maybe any deific rules system would have these things in common (but I doubt it, given what Deities and Demigods is supposed to be like*) but to me, this doesn't bode well.

   
   Such systems will have commonalities, sure, but its as much about how they arrive at the end result as much as the end result itself.
   
   *I am curious what you mean by "given what Deities & Demigods is supposed to be like!?
   
   

   I can't say until I've seen the book, but it appears to methat with some purely quantitative, purely mathematical tweaks to Primal Order, something very similar to this book could be arranged.

   
   Unfortunately that argument is somewhat incongruous, much like the Primal Order, worship points are designed to be easily adapted to any system (though obviously the Immortals Handbook concentrates on the D20 system).
   
   

   I haven't seen the book, so I can't say for certain. It's just a suspicion based on what I saw on the boards in the early days of the WPS. I was in the discussion for the first few days, and when I saw how similar to Primal Order it was turning out to be, I didn't bother with it anymore.

   
   I appreciate (even) the disinterest mate!
   
   I will be very curious to hear your opinion when you eventually get the chance to read the work!
   
   

   Things could well have changed drastically in the intervening months. Time will tell.

   
   Personally I think the Immortals Handbook is far better and more easily initiated than the Primal Order - but then obviously I am biased.
   
   I will be more than happy to let people arrive at their own conclusions, in fact I am actually really looking forward to seeing peoples feedback and hearing their thoughts on it.

 

[DMaple]

One question does it involve as much 'book-keeping' as Primal Order to track the power your worshippers give you and if so is it worth including a spreadsheet template to track it?