Imp Crit + Keen = ???

[hazmat]

The issue of Keen and Improved Crit stacking can't be about the number of dice being rolled.

It's more about weapons with high crit ranges outshining other weapons when you add in bonuses or other ways to increase the threat range. The fact that critical hits multipy constants to damage increase the effectiveness of abilities that give the bonuses.

If 45% of the time I swing I get the chance to double my power attack, my divine might, my weapon specialization, my flaming burst and my smite damage and I were a powergamer I certainly would do it.

This also limits a designer's ability to come up with new ideas related to what can happen on a critical.

Anyway that's my take on this.

 

[RandomPrecision]

If 45% of the time I swing I get the chance to double my power attack, my divine might, my weapon specialization, my flaming burst and my smite damage and I were a powergamer I certainly would do it.

You probably wouldn't be power attacking with a rapier. Maybe divine might or weapon specialization, but now that you're adding flaming burst and smite damage, this is a pretty extreme metagaming example. The same could be said of power attack in that instance. It's just bad role-playing.

Consider that if you can only have a +1 modification on a weapon, you'd be better off with an energy property to do 1d6 extra damage on every hit instead of keen doing 1d6 extra damage on criticals that are more common, but still not guaranteed.

This also limits a designer's ability to come up with new ideas related to what can happen on a critical.

I'm not sure if I understand this.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

You probably wouldn't be power attacking with a rapier.

Quite right, it'd have to be a scimitar.

Consider that if you can only have a +1 modification on a weapon, you'd be better off with an energy property to do 1d6 extra damage on every hit instead of keen doing 1d6 extra damage on criticals that are more common, but still not guaranteed.

Over in the energy enhancement thread in the rules forum there are a sizeable minority that have pushed the case of taking the flat enhancement over energy. I agree in general that flat enhancement as a default choice is never a bad idea.

 

[Murazor]

Quite right, it'd have to be a scimitar.

No, for Power Attack it'd be a Falchion, so you get the 2:1 conversion.

 

[RandomPrecision]

Quite right, it'd have to be a scimitar.

True, forgot about those...

Over in the energy enhancement thread in the rules forum there are a sizeable minority that have pushed the case of taking the flat enhancement over energy. I agree in general that flat enhancement as a default choice is never a bad idea.

True, but I still think energy > keen in most cases.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

True, but I still think energy > keen in most cases.

Heck yes, I've just crunched some numbers and energy > enhancement > keen. There are situations and builds where this is not true but they are not the rule.

 

[apesamongus]

It's more about weapons with high crit ranges outshining other weapons when you add in bonuses or other ways to increase the threat range. The fact that critical hits multipy constants to damage increase the effectiveness of abilities that give the bonuses.

Allowing them to stack is weaker for high range/low multiplier weapons than it is for low range/high multiplier weapons in most cases. That is because high range weapons with both are more likely to hit the breakpoint where the crit range is greater than the chance to hit.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Quoted from Monte's site

[2005/06/12 5:17 pm]
Game Design Machismo

...(skipped section)...

Challenge is fun. Frustration is not. Good game designers, whether for P&P games or computer games, learn to know the difference. And the difference, I think, is all about tedium. Tedium comes from either frustration that you can't do what you want or the repetition of having to do something over and over to succeed. It can also come from success that comes too easy.

Somewhere in between those tedium-causing things is a fun game.

The word tedium struck me as I read this, it may have be of some value to viewers or not. I wonder what MC would have done if he was the man in charge of the revision.

 

[Nifft]

This thread has inspired me to test dropping my house rules regarding critical hits... (well, except the rule that makes X Burst weapons stink less).

-- N