Imp Grapple ? (Can Natural attack sub for Imp Unarmed?)

[Ferrix]

I swear I read a sidebar at some point saying that if you have a natural attack, like a slam, you are considered to have Imp. Unarmed Strike for purposes of pre-reqs. I think it was regarding warforged and their slam attack in an Eberron book.

 

[ARandomGod]

I swear I read a sidebar at some point saying that if you have a natural attack, like a slam, you are considered to have Imp. Unarmed Strike for purposes of pre-reqs. I think it was regarding warforged and their slam attack in an Eberron book.

Interestingly enough, it's a warforged character that inspired this question. I'll have to look in that book more.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I swear I read a sidebar at some point saying that if you have a natural attack, like a slam, you are considered to have Imp. Unarmed Strike for purposes of pre-reqs. I think it was regarding warforged and their slam attack in an Eberron book.

Something similar was mentioned, I believe, in an FAQ at one point or another. It even mentioned that monsters automatically do natural weapon damage in place of unarmed strike damage whenever it becomes important.

This isn't actually supported by any rules, however.

 

[Diirk]

Improved Unarmed Strike and Natural Attacks are entirely different things.

If you want to learn Judo (Improved Grapple), you need to start out with Karate (IUS).

While rulewise you are correct your analogy is horrible. I'd go so far as to say most practitioners of judo probably didn't start off with karate... the two really have nothing to do with each other.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

While rulewise you are correct your analogy is horrible. I'd go so far as to say most practitioners of judo probably didn't start off with karate... the two really have nothing to do with each other.

Vizualization, my friend.

 

[ohGr]

Something similar was mentioned, I believe, in an FAQ at one point or another. It even mentioned that monsters automatically do natural weapon damage in place of unarmed strike damage whenever it becomes important.

This isn't actually supported by any rules, however.

It is if you're an hamatula.

Feats: Alertness, Cleave, Improved Grapple, Iron Will, Power Attack

Improved Grapple isn't designated as a bonus feat, and it has precisely the number of feats that a 12 HD creature should have.

 

[UltimaGabe]

It is if you're an hamatula.


Improved Grapple isn't designated as a bonus feat, and it has precisely the number of feats that a 12 HD creature should have.

Then again, there's quite a few 2HD creatures with less-than-optimal Base Attack that have Weapon Finesse. Does that mean it's possible to get Weapon Finesse without the +1 BAB prerequisite? If so, what do these creatures have in place of it?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Then again, there's quite a few 2HD creatures with less-than-optimal Base Attack that have Weapon Finesse. Does that mean it's possible to get Weapon Finesse without the +1 BAB prerequisite? If so, what do these creatures have in place of it?

Hmm? Even with Poor BAB progression, a 2HD creature has +1 BAB and meets the prerequisite.

-Hyp.

 

[glass]

Well, some creatures can substitute natural abilities for feat prerequisites, like the centaur with the mounted combat feats, but in this case, I'd also be inclined to say, that you still need the Improved Unarmed Strike feat.

Yes but the centaur specifically says that it is a special exception.


glass.

 

[glass]

It is if you're an hamatula. Improved Grapple isn't designated as a bonus feat, and it has precisely the number of feats that a 12 HD creature should have.

I'd say that that is probably a mistake. Presumably, the Hamatula should have a specific exception noted like the centaur, or it should be a bonus feat and the he is a feat short.

The latter would be more rules consistant, but the former is probably easier to retro-fit.


glass.