Imprisoning the PCs

[KidSnide]

The real answer is going to be "it depends" because it depends on a lot of things. If your group just wants to play out a good story, they will be much more forgiving of a "You've been thrown in prison, now go!" device. But if your group has a strong "We control our characters! Don't just narrate our defeat!" attitude, it will be a lot harder. Similarly, it matters how powerful your PCs are. Having the evil Duke's guards arrest your low heroic characters seems quite natural. If they are arresting paragon PCs, then the players will feel like they should have had a chance to resist.

I've run some pretty succesful prison break games. In one, the PCs went through a gate (the type you can't see through) knowing that the previous explorers hadn't returned only to discover that the other side was at the top of a 60 foot cliff. After the fall, they woke up to discovery that they had been chained up and put to work. In the other, I used a prison as an alternative to a TPK. After having defeated the PCs, the bad guys locked up the survivors and the remaining PCs got to play out escaping (and the subsequent revenge!).

But either way, I'll echo the advice to avoid playing out a guaranteed defeat railroad battle. If you think you can trick/convince your PCs to make a decision to justify the capture (like taking a huge risk or putting their safety in the hands of someone who betrays them), then I'd do it. That way the capture becomes a consequence of their own decision. But if you're set on running a prison break, don't give the PCs a choice if you're not sure they'll take it. The last thing you want to do is to give the PCs a choice and then negate the consequence of their choice because you didn't like their decision.

-KS

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Best advice ever. It is best not to use resolution mechanics if the situation is a foregone conclusion. Fighting a must-lose battle is worse than not getting to fight at all.

I saw it as the worst advice.

If you do this, your players will be upset. That IS railroading, plain and simple. You're telling the players "Shut up and put the dice away. I'm telling you what happened, and you can't change or effect it in any way."

It's not even really railroading. It's the DM gathering all his friends for a fanfiction reading involving their characters. It's easily the most infuriating thing you can do.

 

[KidSnide]

Best advice ever. It is best not to use resolution mechanics if the situation is a foregone conclusion. Fighting a must-lose battle is worse than not getting to fight at all.

I saw it as the worst advice.

If you do this, your players will be upset. That IS railroading, plain and simple. You're telling the players "Shut up and put the dice away. I'm telling you what happened, and you can't change or effect it in any way."

I think it's safe to say that groups vary a great deal in terms of what kind of control they are willing to give up in return for a more satisfying (to them) narrative.

Know your group.

-KS

 

[amerigoV]

On "you are now in prison" scenarios - only DMs like them.

I agree with others - let the players figure out how to get into the prison to get the information. Or, give them a way to get in (see Eyes of the Lich Queen). Then as the DM, you still get the joy of nerfing their abilities (an important prison will have defenses against scrying, invisibility, teleportation, etc). Since the players are planning the excursion, then can think of how best to use their abilities, what they need to bypass defenses, etc. DM can separate and imprison PCs, adding to more fun. More of a win/win scenario, even if they choose to get captured and break out.

I think you can get away with the prison scenario in other genres, but fantasy is hard. A big part of the genre is cool magic items. So unless the campaign is opening with them in prison (where they gots nothing anyway), there is always the concern with handling of the lost magic items. If the PCs break out, is their gear in the broom closest just outside their cell? Do the guards have the items? Have the items been confiscated and lost forever? Also, spellcasters get nerfed if imprisoned - no spell components, special defenses (break all their fingers, etc). No spells - no thanks. I'll roll a new PC. You can keep these.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I saw it as the worst advice.

If you do this, your players will be upset. That IS railroading, plain and simple. You're telling the players "Shut up and put the dice away. I'm telling you what happened, and you can't change or effect it in any way."

It's not even really railroading. It's the DM gathering all his friends for a fanfiction reading involving their characters. It's easily the most infuriating thing you can do.

Unless the group is ok with it, yes it is still a bad move. The good advice part comes in about not using resolution mechanics if the outcome is pre-determined. I would be happier as a player for the DM to tell me that my character got arrested and jailed than playing out the resisting arrest scene in detail when the arrest "fix" was in. All I was saying is that if the end result is the same, cut to the chase and pick up the action where decisions matter again.

 

[Mallus]

"The King calls his guards and they throw you the dungeon."

That's all you do. You don't make it a choice. Now, here's how you get away with it.

Great advice!

The players get to make choices in how they escape the dungeon (or beat the rap). Getting them into the dungeon is just the set-up. I've always felt that railroading a group into an adventure is tolerable. It's railroading them out of one that's a deal-breaker (ie, there's only one DM-predetermined solution' to the adventure and every else automatically fails -- now that represents a serious curtailing of player agency).

So long as there's a modicum of trust in the group, there's nothing wrong with Fiat-ing the party into the hoosegow.

 

[Kraydak]

A few other things. Firstly, what are the PCs supposed to do once they are imprisoned? Note that generally escaping imprisonment is *harder* than avoiding capture unless there are mitigating circumstances. This makes the tactic of surrendering only to escape later is a bad tactic in general (there may be cases where you have to hope there are mitigating circumstances that you don't know about, of course). So I really wonder why you want the PCs imprisoned. A case where the PCs accuse some guy of treason and get told that sure, the guilty guy will go to jail but so will they... screams that the fix is in.

Not knowing that, a reasonable way to get the PCs imprisoned (or not...) is to make it clear up front that the PCs and whoever they accuse will be put into protective custody/house arrest while details of the accusation are checked out. This means that the PCs getting arrested (or having a good plan to avoid getting arrested without screwing up their accusation) becomes their own choice.

 

[Mallus]

On "you are now in prison" scenarios - only DMs like them.

That simply isn't true. Better to say 'some players never enjoy them'.

From a certain perspective, 'all of you are now in prison' is no different from 'there is a demon cult terrorizing the village'. Both represent challenges for PC's to overcome, and that's a big part of being DM: acting as a challenge-server for their players.

So long as the PC's are free to solve the challenges in their own way (and to face challenges of their own choosing in addition to being shanghaied into them), things should be kosher.

 

[ExploderWizard]

A few other things. Firstly, what are the PCs supposed to do once they are imprisoned? Note that generally escaping imprisonment is *harder* than avoiding capture unless there are mitigating circumstances.

Did you ever watch Hogan's Heroes?

 

[Kraydak]

Did you ever watch Hogan's Heroes?

2 odd decades ago, so only really remember its existence.... wouldn't this be a case of: mitigator, guards so dumb they might drown looking at the clouds in the rain?