Improved Bull Rush, Improved Overrun

[beepeearr]

One of the funniest uses I ever saw of improved bull rush was a monk with improved initiative also. He would try to start most combats by moving to the opposite side of an opponent (tumbling if they weren't flat-footed), and then bullrushing the enemy into the rest of the party, allowing them to make full atacks on their turn instead of having to move in to attack.

Oops, I left out that the Monk weighed 300+ pounds and was sumo, with movement of 60 and an initiative modifier of +12.

 

[shilsen]

LOL! And he did!! He did!

 

[Brain]

I've gotten a lot of fun use out of Improved Bull Rush with one particular character. It's a pretty specialized technique, but it can set up some fun combo maneuvers.

 

[Talic]

Yep, I've taken Imp Bullrush once or twice, but mainly as a prereq for certain feats. Occasionally tho, it does come in handy when I find a good chance to use the tactic. But in those situations, I'd probably bullrush even without the feat.

 

[majustismp15]

My paladin took trample. Kind of like Imp. overrun in that enemies can't dodge, plus using his mount (which is a size category larger than him) he gets a defact +4 to the attempt.

 

[IanB]

I've taken improved bull rush once, with a fighter headed for the legendary dreadnought epic prestige class.

Never did use it.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Just out of interest, does anyone actually take these feats?

I haven't yet, but there are situations I would like to have it. (especially Imrpoved Bullrush). Should my Eberron Halfing Fighter/Rogue ever die, I might try a Warforged Juggernaught, and take (and use) the feat..

 

[Dross]

I have improved overrun for my ftr/pal horse rider specialist.

Like a number of feats that go to themes, it works well in particular situations. especially to remove onesellf from harm and delay the opponent's for part of a turn.

Improved bullrush is a good thematic feat, and a good feat for those that want to coninue in that vein.

In general, it may be a feat that is used as a result of DM style (YMMV).

I am all for style, DM or PC, but it does make certain feats (and themes/spells/classes) better or worse.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Just out of interest, does anyone actually take these feats?

Unfortunately, Improved Bull Rush's prime use (shoving people off cliffs, into pits, etc) is determined by the terrain, not the PC. There's no rules for simply shoving someone into a wall. The inability to actually avoid it kind of breaks my suspension of disbelief (if you have a halfling rogue Str 8 Dex 20 you can't avoid it), but if the victim gets to dodge, that makes the feat useless. A bit of a catch 22.

One of the best uses is shoving someone through a Wall of Fire or Blade Barrier - oh wait, that kind of screws the bull rusher, too, as they have to move with the victim.

I find Awesome Blow way better. I don't see why any creature that has Improved Bull Rush that also meets the requirements for Awesome Blow wouldn't take Awesome Blow instead. It's dodgeable (because it's an attack roll), but the victim can't just say "I'm stepping out of the way". You don't have to screw yourself to use it, and it's useable regardless of the terrain - terrain just makes it better. Too bad you can only knock an opponent ten feet - I think a Titan should be able to "wind up" and knock the opponent for distance

Improved Overrun is lame. There's no way for the initiator of the maneuver to avoid the AoO. The victim gets to choose whether they make an AoO or just get out of the way. So the initiator either runs the risk of getting skewered (and may knock over the victim), or they didn't impact their opponent at all.

I think I might have taken Improved Bull Rush once, and never got to use it. Twice I saw characters use Improved Trip to effectively bull rush people five feet (as a house rule - and one of those two characters was my NPC).

 

[Sejs]

I'm currently playing a weapon and shield focused fighter who has Improved Bull Rush. I use it (and its extension from Shock Trooper) and Improved Trip a lot for battlefield control. It's worth noting that we allow a tower shield to fall into the same category as other broad, flat improvised weapons - granting a +4 bonus to bull rush checks. I can't smack you with it, but I can shove you around nicely.


All in all it's been quite successful thus far. No, no, you don't get to go where you want to, you get to go where I tell you to go. Then you get to fall over.