Improved Grab and AOO

[Quez The Lame]

If you start a grapple and decide to maintain it, you have to move into to the square of your opponent, which provokes AOO. No problems here.

If the attacker has the Improved Grab ability, he does not need to enter his opponent's square, because he pulls the opponent into his square. No AOO against the attacker, but what about the pulled opponent? Does being pulled into a grapple (which is some kind of movement) provoke AOO?

When a creature gets a hold after an improved grab attack, it pulls the opponent into its space. This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity. It can even move (possibly carrying away the opponent), provided it can drag the opponent’s weight.

SRD seems not to be very clear on that, as the it only refers to the attacker's part.

 

[frankthedm]

This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Is more than clear. The text would have called out 'the creature doing the grab did not draw AoOs for doing this' if a foe could whack someone being improved grabbed and pulled into the creature's square.

Besided one can only take AoOs on opponents RAW.

Either way, you are not saving your ally from being improved grabbed.

On a side note, Improved grab can not activate on an AoO or a ready. Improved grab is a 'free action' to use after an attack hits. AoO's only give you an attack and a ready only gives a free, move or standard action. Neither time is there an opportunity to use the free action of improved grab.

 

[werk]

This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Is more than clear.

I don't know, it reads a little more confusing to me than you would make it seem. While it is clear that the Imp Grabbing action does not provoke, I think that the victim creature should draw AoO in absence of specific text stating otherwise. If they are passing through threatened areas.

It's much like charge. Charge does not draw AoO, but the movement does.

 

[funmasta]

What he means is:
If u start a (normal) grapple you move into the Square of the Subject and provoke AoOs for your movement. If u start a grapple with improved Grab, you pull the Opponent into your field and so he moves and not you. Does this movement (of your opponent) provoke an AoE?

 

[werk]

What he means is:
If u start a (normal) grapple you move into the Square of the Subject and provoke AoOs for your movement. If u start a grapple with improved Grab, you pull the Opponent into your field and so he moves and not you. Does this movement (of your opponent) provoke an AoE?

Right, concerned about AOOs on the grabbee, not the grabber.

...unless I'm reading everything wrong. (possible )

 

[frankthedm]

What he means is:
If u start a (normal) grapple you move into the Square of the Subject and provoke AoOs for your movement. If u start a grapple with improved Grab, you pull the Opponent into your field and so he moves and not you. Does this movement (of your opponent) provoke an AoE?

I know the OP means.

This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Getting improved grabbed means the victim is up crap creek without a paddle. No need to make it worse. And then if you did allow foes to take AoOs on the victim, players would complain why can't they try grabing their ally at that moment. And on that argument, I'd be on their side.

 

[werk]

So...I'm really searching for something to support Frank's assertion. (not talking about the defender drawing AoO from the IG attacker, but from other threats.)

One argument I'm finding is that only your actions can cause you to draw AoO. Since the IG creature is moving you, and it is not your turn, the defender does not/cannot draw AoO.

I can't find anything to support that either.

The rebuttal of that argument is Bullrush, which states that the defender, if moved, does draw AoO.

I understand the argument that the defender shouldn't draw AoO, but I'm looking for a RAW reason why he doesn't.

 

[frankthedm]

I understand the argument that the defender shouldn't draw AoO, but I'm looking for a RAW reason why he doesn't.

I understand the argument that the defender shouldn't draw AoO, but I'm looking for a RAW reason why he doesn't.

Well other than the wording is it pulls the opponent into its space rather than "the opponent moves into its space" is a good argument. AoOs trigger off movement. Not falling or Telekinetic hurling for example.

In my reading of the ability, the 'no AoO' covers attacker and defender since it applies to the act of improved grab.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I would disagree. IMHO the victim in your diagram would indeed incur an AoO from the Green Foe.

I also allow AoO when someone is thrown past, falls past, or TK's past an opponent. This is based on the 'Bullrush' ruling where involuntary movement still draws an AoO.

 

[frankthedm]

I also allow AoO when someone is thrown past, falls past, or TK's past an opponent. This is based on the 'Bullrush' ruling where involuntary movement still draws an AoO.

Do you count those as part of the same move so only one AoO gets suffered in a worse case senario?

Otherwise a Vrock mid-fight TKs victim at itself, take the AoO for the forced move up through it's threat, Suffers little to no damge due to DR from the impact, and then takes the Combat Reflexes AoO for the victim falling down through it's threat.

BTW Bullrushing calls out that it draws AoO's for its forced movment.