Improved Grab and AOO

[Infiniti2000]

5'steps and special feats like Spring attack make exceptions to this rule.

Improved Grab is apparently another exception to this rule because it explicitly identifies it as such. I'm a little less clear on blade barrier, as I think that can go either way, but I'd still say no AoO.

IMO, as an analogy a non-action is a little like -- for a stat. If you have a +1 bonus to -- you still have --. So, 'regardless of the action' when talking about "not an action" simply does not apply.

 

[frankthedm]

Certainly they do.

Infin2K is refering to this passage.

If you evoke the barrier so that it appears where creatures are, each creature takes damage as if passing through the wall. Each such creature can avoid the wall (ending up on the side of its choice) and thus take no damage by making a successful Reflex save.

Do you seriously think taking this reflex save while threatened by a foe will result in an AoO?

 

[Dracorat]

Or how about taking a reflex save at any time, since that requires movement? Or is some arbitrary measurement (a square) somehow justifiable in someone's mind when jumping in the same square is seen as OK? And if jumping in your own square is OK, how come being pulled from it isn't? Oh right, leaving your own square.

I'm not convinced.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Or is some arbitrary measurement (a square) somehow justifiable in someone's mind when jumping in the same square is seen as OK?

Absolutely. It's movement out of a threatened square that provokes an AoO, not movement within one.

-Hyp.

 

[Dracorat]

Its a move action that causes you to leave a threatened square, if you want to be precise. =)

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Infin2K is refering to this passage.

Do you seriously think taking this reflex save while threatened by a foe will result in an AoO?

Looking at the text of the spell I see no definition of how wide the wall is. I see nothing wrong with the wall bisecting a square and leaving a character 'squeezed' to one side of thier optimum combat area {square}

Wish I could do pretty diagrams like the ones you have been posted.. they rock!




Dracorat.. did I miss where you switched sides?

And if jumping in your own square is OK, how come being pulled from it isn't?

That looks suspiciously like "And if getting pushed from your own square draws an AoO, how come being pulled from it doesn't?"



Oh, I think Hyp was quite precise enough.. its not the move action, its movement.

 

[KarinsDad]

The Bull-rush rule sets precedence for drawing an AoO when someone else forces you to move through a threatened zone. This rule is refered to in a number of other similar situations.

Regardless of how it is referenced by other rules, it is not referenced by Improved Grab. It is a specific rule, not a general rule.

There is no such thing as precedence in the rules. Either the situation applies, or it does not. Improved Grab is not Bullrush, so the Bullrush rules do not apply. Period.

The standard AoO moving rule could apply though.

Sure, WOTC should have written this a bit better, but IMHO the RAW clearly states that when a character physically is transported out of a square that is threatened, whether by thier own motivation or by bull-rush/TK/Imp Grab/Carriage/whatever, they draw an AoO.

Careful with your terminology. Teleport transports a character out of a square, but I doubt anyone considers that moving.


My personal take on this is that the designers meant both. The attacker does not provoke on that attack (for pulling). The defender does not provoke on that attack (for being moved).

If the act does not provoke, it does not provoke. There should be no "well, it provokes for one, but not the other".

 

[Hypersmurf]

If the act does not provoke, it does not provoke. There should be no "well, it provokes for one, but not the other".

Like Charge, say? The action does not provoke (for being a charge), but if it results in movement out of a threatened square, that movement provokes?

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Like Charge, say?

No, still not like Charge. werk already brought that up.

 

[werk]

No, still not like Charge. werk already brought that up.

How about, like bullrush?