Improved Magic Missile?

[taliesin15]

I'm thinking of introducing Improved Magic Missile spells into my campaign. The first ("Improved Magic Missile") being either a 2nd or 3rd level spell where the damage is 1d6+1, another one ("Greater Magic Missile" at higher lvl being 1d8+1 and so forth, otherwise identical to the first lvl Mag Missile.

Has this been tried before (other than the Chain Missile spell)? And what do people think? Too powerful? "Improved Magic Missile" just right as a 2nd lvl spell?

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

1d8+1 seems fair to me, but I'd also improve the number of missiles. I'd put it at 3rd level, with each missile at 1d8+1 and a maximum of 10 missiles at 19th level.

Cheers,

 

[DreamChaser]

At 1d8+1 and as a 3rd level spell, a it would average 5.5 points of damage. Magic missile at this point is doing 10.5 points of damage (3.5 x 3 missiles). So in order to be worth while, the 3rd level version needs to start out as something better. Especially since it is competing with the (one level lower) Scorching Ray, the equal level Fireball and Lightning Bolt (each of which average 17.5, or 8.75 on a save, to multiple targets at this level).

For a comparison, burning hands, also 1st level, is dealing 12.5, or 6.25 on a successful save, at 5th level to multiple targets. Of course energy spells can be countered by energy resistance, but all else equal, the area versions are doing only slightly more damage than the targeted missiles at equal level.

So, each 3rd level missile should do 2d8+2 (with a new missile every other level to a maximum of 10 missiles at 25th level), which puts the 5th level average at 11.

Good thing to mention here also, is that magic missile becomes less effective over time not simply because it does less damage compared to the HP of the creatures being fought, but the number of creatures with and amount of SR increases as the party gains level, ultimately mitigating one of magic missiles greatest selling points.

Still, I think that that this could be workable.

Cheers!

DC

 

[Quartz]

So, each 3rd level missile should do 2d8+2 (with a new missile every other level to a maximum of 10 missiles at 25th level), which puts the 5th level average at 11.

This compares with an Empowered Magic Missile. A 5th level caster using Empowered Magic Missile gets an average of 16 HP damage, with a maximum of 22. A 9th level caster gets 26 HP with Empowered Magic Missile and and 33 with yours. Slightly better but it's a 3rd level spell. I'm not so sure about the maximum of 10 missiles - shouldn't that be 5 missiles for a 3rd level spell (max 10 dice of damage)?

 

[XCorvis]

Maybe a mod could merge this thread with the other one?

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

At 1d8+1 and as a 3rd level spell, a it would average 5.5 points of damage. Magic missile at this point is doing 10.5 points of damage (3.5 x 3 missiles). So in order to be worth while, the 3rd level version needs to start out as something better. Especially since it is competing with the (one level lower) Scorching Ray, the equal level Fireball and Lightning Bolt (each of which average 17.5, or 8.75 on a save, to multiple targets at this level).

I believe I was not clear. The 3rd level version would already start at 3 missiles (16.5 on average), since magic missiles give one missile per two caster levels.

Making it start at 1d8+1 would be the same as making the poor little 5th level wizard cast fireballs of 1d6 damage...

Cheers,

 

[taliesin15]

So if 1d8 or 2d8 Magic Missiles seem to be the thing as a 3rd level spell, 1d6 as a 2nd level spell sounds ok to folks?