Improved Natural Attack Vs Improved Unarmed Strike

[Seeten]

Ok, the premise.

If I want to be a crazy martial arts master, using elbows, knees, fists, headbutts, and do 1d20 + as my damage dice, I can be a Monk with INA, and Supreme Unarmed Strike, etc, and get bigger damage dies, etc.

What if I want to improve the damage dice of my Shifter/Lycanthrope/etc? I know I can take INA, but thats once only, and not nearly as nice as being a monk for IUS.

Is there any monk style progression for claws, or anything of the sort? If not, why not? Would you allow a Lycanthrope "monk" to use the improved damage dice for his Claw/Claw/Bite instead of his Fist/foot/elbow routine? Why or why not?

 

[frankthedm]

What if I want to improve the damage dice of my Shifter/Lycanthrope/etc? I know I can take INA, but thats once only, and not nearly as nice as being a monk for IUS.

Then you take improved critical claw. Natural attacks don't get major class based increases. The monk's IUS is only suposed to level his fields with the monster's attacks. Anything that would be viable for a PC to increase their natural attacks with would be lethal in the talons of high HD monsters.

Damage dice are based on how big a natural weapon is. Bigger monsters get bigger damage dice. Grow stronger.

 

[Seeten]

why is a monk attacking with 15/15/15/15/10/5 for 1d20+4x6 equal to a monster with 20/20/15/15/10/5 for 1d6+4x5 and 1d6+2? I dont understand

 

[Slaved]

Making yourself as big as possible is the next best option. There is the spell Giant Size and there is the power Expansion. Both will let you be your normal self but much larger which increases the damage dice greatly.

If you can get it the power Form of Doom might also be helpful.

 

[frankthedm]

A first level monk's attack is more or less a "slam" that works with BAB.

Your "15/15/15/15/10/5 for 1d20+4x6" monk competes with Bite +57 melee (4d8+17/18-20/×3) and 2 horns +52 melee (1d10+8) and 2 claws +52 melee (1d12+8) and tail slap +52 melee (3d8+8)

 

[Seeten]

Perhaps if discussing Monk vs a Tyrannosaurus Rex, I'm talking about an Eberron shifter, or a Lycanthrope(Wererat? Werewolf?) templated creature with claw/claw/bite.

Alright, I'm being disingenuous, I'm talking about my Sahuagin, and framing it in a better light, but its still talon/talon/bite for 1d4+5/1d4+5/1d4+2. A monk is already doing 1d6's, 1d8's with a feat, and 2d6's with 2 feats.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I know I can take INA...

Are the stars in alignment for this discussion again, or do you want to restate your premise to disallow commentary on the validity of your claims?

 

[Seeten]

Are the stars in alignment for this discussion again, or do you want to restate your premise to disallow commentary on the validity of your claims?

I know I can take INA, because I have real Natural attacks, namely Talon Bite and Rake.

 

[FireLance]

I don't think there is anything wrong with allowing a monk to replace the damage for his claws with his monk unarmed strike damage, provided the character also uses the monk attack progression (including the extra attacks if he is flurrying), i.e. no extra attacks from the other claws. Otherwise, the ability might get too powerful when used in conjunction with a race that has several claw attacks. You can generalize this argument for natural weapons in general, although the mental image of flurrying with a bite attack might seem too comical or odd for certain players and DMs. This should cost a feat, though, as it gives more flexibility to the monk to deal other types of damage (slashing and/or piercing).

 

[Seeten]

Flurrying with claws, Bite as a secondary natural attack would be my feeling. Using up a feat feels fair, for sure.