Improved Natural Attack Vs Improved Unarmed Strike

[Deset Gled]

Flurrying with claws, Bite as a secondary natural attack would be my feeling. Using up a feat feels fair, for sure.

You can't flurry with claws or bite. They're not monk weapons.

I think you're going to find that references to monks in this thread are going to cause you more harm than good. If you want to maximize damage as a Shifter, ask how to maximize damage as a Shifter. Trying to bring it back to Monks is just going to make things messy, every time.

 

[Seeten]

I dont want to play an enlarging, wraithstriking INA using Eldritch Knight. I already know where that thread will go, since unarmed strikes and natural weapons are such close cousins, I wanted to take this thread in a different direction

 

[Deset Gled]

since unarmed strikes and natural weapons are such close cousins, I wanted to take this thread in a different direction

That's the problem. Unarmed strikes and natural weapons aren't close cousins. They're more like a couple who had a miserable break up and are now trying to get their lives back together hanging out with the old gang, but things are always just really awkward when they see each other.

Unarmed strikes and natural weapons do not mix. The monk class will do nothing to enhance a monster's natural attacks in any way.

 

[seans23]

I could write a little javascript for the site that checks for the phrases "improved natural attack" and "monk" and warns the user before posting. That might save us a wee bit.

 

[Seeten]

If you read the OP, I didnt ask if monks could flurry with natural weapons. I already know they cant by the RAW.

I'll rephrase/restate the relevant section from the original post:

"Is there any monk style progression for claws, or anything of the sort? If not, why not? Would you allow a Lycanthrope "monk" to use the improved damage dice for his Claw/Claw/Bite instead of his Fist/foot/elbow routine? Why or why not?"

 

[Slaved]

Is there any monk style progression for claws, or anything of the sort?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/clawsoftheBeast.htm

 

[Seeten]

Thats a pretty cool progression, but what if your hands are already claws? I guess the real answer to the question is, no, a creature with a claw/claw/bite is basically stuck with 1d6+str damage from 1 to 20, with the exception of INA, which is only selectable once.

Becoming the supreme master of fisticuffs seems easy, be a monk, take supreme unarmed strike, get a monk belt, be a level 3 monk with an ascetic feat, etc, but apparently becoming better with your claws is a bizarre idea. =)

 

[Seeten]

I could write a little javascript for the site that checks for the phrases "improved natural attack" and "monk" and warns the user before posting. That might save us a wee bit.

Or, as a community supporter, I could search the site, but since I contributed to half those threads, there would be no point. Further, since I phrased the OP in such a way to avoid discussing INA for IUS, since I'm not concerned about monks, or IUS at all, in this case.

What I am interested in is a class, feat or prc which improves claw/claw/bite in the same sort of way as the monk class, and the supreme unarmed strike feat, improve fist/fist/headbutt for a human.

 

[Dagredhel]

Have you considered the Kensai PrC from CW?

If I recall correctly, it would allow you to add enhancements to your natural attacks as if they were magical weapons. With some of the new magical weapon properties detailed in non-core WOTC sources, I believe that over 10 levels you could get a +5 enhancement bonus and be able to bypass any non-Epic DR with a special material or alignment exception. (Alternately, you could pick up extra energy damage or bane enhancements, or go any number of other routes--- there are many attractive options available, depending on which books you're using.) The Concentration-based Strength buff is sweet, too.

I can't recall the name exactly (Thayan Gladiator?) but there was a PrC in one of the FR supplements (Champions of Ruin?) that did something similar, and was targeted more specifically at evil, monstrous characters.

 

[Seeten]

Have you considered the Kensai PrC from CW?

If I recall correctly, it would allow you to add enhancements to your natural attacks as if they were magical weapons. With some of the new magical weapon properties detailed in non-core WOTC sources, I believe that over 10 levels you could get a +5 enhancement bonus and be able to bypass any non-Epic DR with a special material or alignment exception. (Alternately, you could pick up extra energy damage or bane enhancements, or go any number of other routes--- there are many attractive options available, depending on which books you're using.) The Concentration-based Strength buff is sweet, too.

I can't recall the name exactly (Thayan Gladiator?) but there was a PrC in one of the FR supplements (Champions of Ruin?) that did something similar, and was targeted more specifically at evil, monstrous characters.

Never considered Kensai, mostly because it doesnt add much, I can just enchant my claws/bite with normal magic for the same benefit.

Looks like i'm just gonna go Warblade and use tiger claw maneuvers.