Improved trip and knockdown question

[Zimri]

If I am making a trip attack (using the free one I get for doing 10 points of damage and having the knockdown feat if any of that matters) and I have improved trip does my opponent get a chance to trip me back if I fail ?

The feat description mentions that if you get multiple attacks you just keep trying to trip on subsequent attack rolls if you fail.

 

[Darklone]

You can't combine the two feats.

If you use Knockdown, your opponent can not trip you back but you don't get an additional attack nor the +4 bonus to the trip check (if there is one, wasn't that a save?).

 

[Zimri]

Really ? I am not calling you a liar or implying that you are kidding I just have never seen anything besides your post stating that they can't be used together.

Would like to know why and where that was written. I would hate to think I was doing it incorrectly. I will change this action immediately (and likely revert to just using knockdown and ask the DM if I can substitute improved trip for something else)

 

[UltimaGabe]

In the description of the Knockdown feat, if I am not mistaken, it very specifically says that it can't be combined with Improved Trip.

 

[Camarath]

Really ? I am not calling you a liar or implying that you are kidding I just have never seen anything besides your post stating that they can't be used together.

Older threads on the issue you might find helpful.
Dirty Fighting an Knockdown
Knockdown
Knockdown + Improved Trip

 

[Zimri]

I just looked in my sword and fist and that line isn't there. We have had instances where two copies of the same book differed. This may be one of them will have to gather all the copies of Sword and fist at the gaming table saturday and get the DM to rule on it.

[rant on] Some consistancy would be nice please [/rant off]

Thanks for the link camarath

 

[mmu1]

Of course, the bigger issue here is that Knockdown in not really an acceptable feat to begin with (I mean, 10 points of damage? What, they were trying to make sure halfling Mages wouldn't take it, or something?) and certainly not in 3.5, where getting up provokes AAOs, and Improved Trip is present.

I've seen plenty of not even remotely twinked-out characters that's get to use it on 90% of their hits, and that's not a balanced feat...

 

[Caliban]

I just looked in my sword and fist and that line isn't there. We have had instances where two copies of the same book differed. This may be one of them will have to gather all the copies of Sword and fist at the gaming table saturday and get the DM to rule on it.

[rant on] Some consistancy would be nice please [/rant off]

Thanks for the link camarath

The original printing didn't have that line. It was added in the errata, and should be in the second printing of the book.

 

[Zimri]

yeah thats pretty much what is going on. we have come across a few other things like that as well.

Boils down to we have been doing my flurry of blows/knockdown/improved trip extra attack all wrong ( I haven't been adding the +4, I have been getting counter trip attempts, and I have been following through with the extra attack)

Gonna have to see which way my DM wants to go. Going to see if he is willing to use getting up provokes an AOO or not. we are basically running 3.0 with some 3.5 things thrown in.