Improved Trip vs. creature Trip ability.

[TessarrianDM]

The Trip ability that some creatures have specifically states that if the creature fails on its trip attempt, it cannot be tripped in return. The Improved Trip feat does not specify that that is the case; it only grants a +4 bonus to the Strength check and does not incur an attack of opportunity. Is this a case of them being two completely different things that grant a similar (but not the same) ability, or does (or should) the Improved Trip feat prevent a character from being tripped on a failed attempt? After all, Improved Disarm prevents opponents from attempting a disarm if you fail on your attempt, along with not incurring an attack of opportunity and granting a +4 bonus to the roll.

 

[frankthedm]

The Trip ability that some creatures have specifically states that if the creature fails on its trip attempt, it cannot be tripped in return. The Improved Trip feat does not specify that that is the case; it only grants a +4 bonus to the Strength check and does not incur an attack of opportunity. Is this a case of them being two completely different things that grant a similar (but not the same) ability, or does (or should) the Improved Trip feat prevent a character from being tripped on a failed attempt? After all, Improved Disarm prevents opponents from attempting a disarm if you fail on your attempt, along with not incurring an attack of opportunity and granting a +4 bonus to the roll.

The BIG difference is that the Improved trip feat gives a free attack after a successful trip, Improved disarm does not does not give a free attack after a successful disarm.

Another huge difference is that the trip mechanic disregards BAB, making the +4 much more precious.

Another difference is that more things can be tripped than disarmed since not all a PCs foes will use or rely on weapons.

 

[TessarrianDM]

The BIG difference is that the Improved trip feat gives a free attack after a successful trip, Improved disarm does not does not give a free attack after a successful disarm.

Another huge difference is that the trip mechanic disregards BAB, making the +4 much more precious.

Another difference is that more things can be tripped than disarmed since not all a PCs foes will use or rely on weapons.

OK, I understand the differences between Improved Trip and Improved Disarm. How about the difference between Improved Trip and the Trip ability that creatures such as wolves have?

 

[frankthedm]

OK, I understand the differences between Improved Trip and Improved Disarm. How about the difference between Improved Trip and the Trip ability that creatures such as wolves have?

Hey, I'd rather wolves and other such critters had improved trip as a bonus feat.

The critter has to hit to have the shot at the trip special ability. The roll to touch on a improved trip is usually much easier than actually attacking, the better chance to trip would be worth the risk of counter tripping and when the trip is successful, hitting is 4 points easier.

Plus to me it seems more intuitive for a wolf to drag it's prey down, then bite it, rather than the other way around.

 

[DreamChaser]

Plus to me it seems more intuitive for a wolf to drag it's prey down, then bite it, rather than the other way around.

Except on a practical level, a wolf drags its prey down with its teeth, unlike a lion which is prone to tackling prey and overbearing it, a wolf (or pack of wolves) will snap at the legs of its future food in an attempt to bring it down.

DC