Improved Unarmed combat questions

Caliban said:
No, normally a Trip attack is done without using a weapon.

Saying no, and agreeing with me in the same sentence .. hmm ..

A trip is done without weapons normally as it is not the weapon that actually trips (excluding trip weapons, of course).

I am certain that Skip would agree that trip should be a unarmed attack subset, but that is speculative.

Anyway, it is getting late here on the other side of globe, and I would prefer to discuss this further tomorrow. I might make a few quit replies while I'm getting ready for bed.
 
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I think what Caliban was getting at was that if you go with the Sage's ruling then if you are armed with a dagger you could make an AoO. If that AoO was a Trip, then it's an unarmed attack, but the Sage ruled that you don't threaten with an unarmed attack so how could you make a Trip attack?

IceBear
 


IceBear said:
I think what Caliban was getting at was that if you go with the Sage's ruling then if you are armed with a dagger you could make an AoO. If that AoO was a Trip, then it's an unarmed attack, but the Sage ruled that you don't threaten with an unarmed attack so how could you make a Trip attack?

Correct me if I'm wrong, Caliban, but didn't you include that comment to show inconsistency in Skips reasoning, however if he thinks as I do that Trip (that can be done with a select few melee weapons, and therefore armed as well) should be a subset of an unarmed attack, there is no inconsistency, right?

EDIT: Btw, that is why I said it was incorrect. I know that Trip doesn't provoke AoO, and all that.
 
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I agree with Caliban. You can attempt a Trip using any kind of melee weapons (or weapons like a whip) as well as unarmed strike (even "armed" unarmed).

Only Trip weapon allow the wielder to drop said weapon when his attempt to Trip his opponent have failed and his opponent is about to counter-Trip him (using the wielder's own weapon).
 

That's how I understand Trip to work as well - it's basically an unarmed attack. If you have a Trip weapon, then you could use that weapon instead and if you're about to be counter-tripped, you drop the weapon.

IceBear
 


The Sage's ruling would mean that you couldn't Trip on an AoO unless you had a Trip weapon.

Caliban is saying that you can Trip unarmed on an AoO, and it would be better to do that than to make an unarmed melee attack.

IceBear
 
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IceBear said:
The Sage's ruling would mean that you couldn't Trip on an AoO unless you had a Trip weapon.

Or was considered armed, as in having Improved Unarmed Strike. He said you couldn't make AoOs unless you were armed.

Caliban is saying that you can Trip unarmed on an AoO.

You can do that, and most cases actually have to do that with a Trip.
 
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I really shouldn't be replying here, as I didn't carefully read Caliban's post of the message from this other person but:

1) The Sage is saying you can't make an AoO unarmed as you dont' threaten anything

2) A Trip (without a Trip weapon) is an unarmed attack.

3) It's odd that if you have a dagger and someone draws an AoO from you, you could try to Trip them, but if you were unarmed you can't, even though in both cases you are making an unarmed attack.

Anyway, I play that if you are unarmed you can make an AoO, but that AoO would draw an AoO. Since you only get one AoO per round per opponent then the chain ends there, even if the opponent makes his AoO with an unarmed attack. Also, I know that in most cases a Trip attack is an unarmed attack.

IceBear
 
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