Improved Unarmed Strike and Weapon Finesse

[iwatt]

Sorry if it's already been asked, but:

1) Does Weapon Finesse apply to Unarmed strike? I believe it does, since an unarmed strike appeared as a light weapon in the weapons table (I think).

2) If a character has Wepon Finesse and the Improved Grapple feat, can he use his DEX instead of STR as th relevant modifier? I could see it going both ways, so I would really apreciate any rules clarification. If no rule is relevant, what is your opinion?

 

[Metallian]

Sorry if it's already been asked, but:

1) Does Weapon Finesse apply to Unarmed strike? I believe it does, since an unarmed strike appeared as a light weapon in the weapons table (I think).

2) If a character has Wepon Finesse and the Improved Grapple feat, can he use his DEX instead of STR as th relevant modifier? I could see it going both ways, so I would really apreciate any rules clarification. If no rule is relevant, what is your opinion?

In 3.5, it seems to be the case that "Unarmed Strike" and "Grapple" are considered different weapons...at least that's how it seems to work for the purposes of Weapon Focus. (Random note - That sucks for my Monk character, because the DM had been house ruling Grappling so Weapon Focus - Unarmed Strike and an Amulet of Mighty Fists gave me a grappling bonus.)

So I guess the real question is...is "Grapple" considered a light weapon?

The Metallian

 

[CalrinAlshaw]

I believe Dexterity can only be used when attempting to escape from a grappled condition (Pinned, Held, etc.)
Whereas Strength must ALWAYS be used when "attacking" as a grappler.

At least, thats how I would houserule it otherwise

Calrin

 

[Camarath]

1) Does Weapon Finesse apply to Unarmed strike? I believe it does, since an unarmed strike appeared as a light weapon in the weapons table (I think).

I believe that you can Weapon Finesse apply to Unarmed Strike since "An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon".

2) If a character has Wepon Finesse and the Improved Grapple feat, can he use his DEX instead of STR as th relevant modifier? I could see it going both ways, so I would really apreciate any rules clarification. If no rule is relevant, what is your opinion?

Well I am not sure about this. Does a grapple check count as an actual attack, I think it does (or at least it should). If it is an attack then you can if it is not then you can't use Weapon Finesse. I think it make sense (and avoids some potential problems) for a grapple check to count as attack roll.

Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls.

Grapple Checks
Repeatedly in a grapple, you need to make opposed grapple checks against an opponent. A grapple check is like a melee attack roll. Your attack bonus on a grapple check is: Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifier

 

[AGGEMAM]

1) Does Weapon Finesse apply to Unarmed strike? I believe it does, since an unarmed strike appeared as a light weapon in the weapons table (I think).

Yes, an unarmed strike is a light weapon.

2) If a character has Wepon Finesse and the Improved Grapple feat, can he use his DEX instead of STR as th relevant modifier? I could see it going both ways, so I would really apreciate any rules clarification. If no rule is relevant, what is your opinion?

No, a grapple check is not an attack.

 

[Camarath]

In 3.5, it seems to be the case that "Unarmed Strike" and "Grapple" are considered different weapons...at least that's how it seems to work for the purposes of Weapon Focus. (Random note - That sucks for my Monk character, because the DM had been house ruling Grappling so Weapon Focus - Unarmed Strike and an Amulet of Mighty Fists gave me a grappling bonus.)

I did not think that "Grapple" counted an independent weapon. Do you know where I can find the rules basis for this? I always assumed grappling used you "Unarmed" weapon.

 

[CalrinAlshaw]

Grappling only used the "unarmed" attack weapon when doing the Hold action to damage an opponent for real damage instead of just subdual. For pinning, you had no special benefits.

Calrin

 

[CrimsonTemplar]

I'd say no to allowing Dex over Str for initiating a Grapple. Being nimble may help you get out of somebody's hold on you, but I don't see it making it all that easy to pin a stonger opponent.

 

[Magic Slim]

But Weapon finesse (unarmed strike) should come into play for the initial melee touch attack, no?

Slim

 

[Shallown]

I thought Weapon finesse only applied to weapons you were proficient in. So I think you need the Unarmed strike feat to be prof. then again I could be wrong 3.5 still too new and not integrated into my campaign quite yet.

later