Improving the half-elf

[Kzach]

I was really disappointed to find that the half-elf had Con and Charisma as their set stat bonuses. Neither, to me, make particular sense and the entire schtick of being Mr/Mrs. Diplomacy just bugs me.

It doesn't even fit the stereotype!

In fact, it fits nothing. It doesn't reflect their elven or human heritage. And neither do their skills bonuses. And none of it reflects their so-called 'adaptability'.

So I was thinking about how to go about fixing this.

I decided that the Dilettante power suits them well so I kept it. But I got rid of the skill bonuses and the group diplomacy.

Instead, I think they should have +2 to Dex to reflect their elven heritage, and +2 to any other ability, to reflect their human heritage.

Yes, this is powerful, but then I felt they were underpowered anyway. And when you put it into perspective, it's not what I'd call overpowered. They're getting +2 to Dex, +2 to any other stat, Dilettante, can choose from elven/half-elven/human feats and one extra language.

Compare that to humans who get +2 to any stat, a bonus skill, bonus feat, bonus at-will and +1 to saves.

So is there any reason that I shouldn't make this a house-rule? Any circumstances I'm not seeing which turn this from a reasonable interpretation of their logical capabilities into a nightmare of OP'ness?

 

[Omnifarious Grey]

I was really disappointed to find that the half-elf had Con and Charisma as their set stat bonuses. Neither, to me, make particular sense and the entire schtick of being Mr/Mrs. Diplomacy just bugs me.

It doesn't even fit the stereotype!

In fact, it fits nothing. It doesn't reflect their elven or human heritage. And neither do their skills bonuses. And none of it reflects their so-called 'adaptability'.

So I was thinking about how to go about fixing this.

I decided that the Dilettante power suits them well so I kept it. But I got rid of the skill bonuses and the group diplomacy.

Instead, I think they should have +2 to Dex to reflect their elven heritage, and +2 to any other ability, to reflect their human heritage.

Yes, this is powerful, but then I felt they were underpowered anyway. And when you put it into perspective, it's not what I'd call overpowered. They're getting +2 to Dex, +2 to any other stat, Dilettante, can choose from elven/half-elven/human feats and one extra language.

Compare that to humans who get +2 to any stat, a bonus skill, bonus feat, bonus at-will and +1 to saves.

So is there any reason that I shouldn't make this a house-rule? Any circumstances I'm not seeing which turn this from a reasonable interpretation of their logical capabilities into a nightmare of OP'ness?

I personally think that the Half-elf was well designed. Reading books in the dragonlance series about people like Tanis Half-elven seemed to be why they were designed as such. I don't see how you can dismiss the idea that they are not designed to the race in a way, but that is opinion so I can understand.

As far as the changes you have posted I think that the biggest issue is the +2 to any stat. Most of the races are built with a few specific classes to be choosen to help. Human is one of the exceptions because they can help any class and fills the gaps. If you create a race that is more versitile than a human stat-wise then it is clearly too strong. Skills are not a big deal and sure an extra feat is nice, but most heroic feats are too bland to make a difference. Anyone who would powergame would gladly give up that skill or feat to gain an extra +2 to dex, and on top of that gain an at-will to supplement them from another class.

You may want to rethink having such a broad choice as that.

 

[Kzach]

I personally think that the Half-elf was well designed. Reading books in the dragonlance series about people like Tanis Half-elven seemed to be why they were designed as such. I don't see how you can dismiss the idea that they are not designed to the race in a way, but that is opinion so I can understand.

You're basing your interpretation of an entire sub-race off one character in one setting. If they've based half-elves off of him, then they've done the race an injustice. The race has the possibility of being far more interesting and diverse than this.

The current way they are built pigeon-holes them into a role that just doesn't suit the potential of the race. What about their origin speaks towards being a hardy people-person? Given that they have no culture of their own and adopt all their belief systems from whichever culture dominates in their upbringing, then why is it that every half-elf turns out the same?'

That type of pigeon-holing is fine with races that have a dominant culture, but there is no half-elf nation or culture to draw from for these similarities. So the best solution isn't to force-feed some romantic notion of all half-elves as happy-happy-joy-joy narcissists, but to rather draw on what information we have about them that is similar to all of them.

Dexterity is a dominant trait of all elven subraces, so really that should've been a no-brainer. Dilettante suits the race well because of the requirement for all half-elves to adapt to two cultures. The extra language also suits this very well. And the +2 to any stat reflects the chaotic nature of their upbringing since they could really go in any direction.

As far as the changes you have posted I think that the biggest issue is the +2 to any stat. Most of the races are built with a few specific classes to be choosen to help. Human is one of the exceptions because they can help any class and fills the gaps. If you create a race that is more versitile than a human stat-wise then it is clearly too strong. Skills are not a big deal and sure an extra feat is nice, but most heroic feats are too bland to make a difference. Anyone who would powergame would gladly give up that skill or feat to gain an extra +2 to dex, and on top of that gain an at-will to supplement them from another class.

I think you're underestimating the power of an extra at-will, feat, skill and +1 bonus to defences. And it is not more versatile than a human. It is exactly as versatile as a human as far as stats go because only one bonus is flexible.

None of the reasons you've given prove that it's better than any other race. In fact, even with the flexible +2, it's still slightly underpowered in my opinion, because that flexibility isn't really power, it's simply greater variety of choice for the initial character creation. Once done, the half-elf as presented here has less power and options than other races.

 

[Meatboy]

Yeah I am not enamored with the race myself. The best thing about it is the +2 con/cha but yeah I feel those don't make much sense. +2 dex and a floating bonus does seem darn good though pretty much allowing you to tailor make a rogue of any build.
I'd probably just give them the floating bonus and then something like +2 to Ref. showing the nimbleness of their elven heritage with the survivabilty of the human.
The skills I would change too, probably to Perception and insight.
I agree that group diplomacy has got to go. That is a pretty weak thing to base a race around. I might give them a power that grants a bonus when using DEX to attack (again hopefully showing your elven heritage) say like this...

Nimble Strike Half Elf Racial Power
With clarity, grit and focus you make sure that this one blow counts.
Encounter
Free Action Personal
Effect: When making an attack using Dexterity you may add a +2 bonus to the attack.

This may or may not give you some ideas. Hope it does something anyway .

 

[Omnifarious Grey]

I still think that people are missing the concept of what a half-elf is. Before I start, yes this is opinion, but then again most things are as such when concerning how we view races/classes/etc.

Half-elves (IMO) have the bonus to Charisma and diplomacy due to them being social outcasts. They have needed to find ways to fit in with other cultures because they themselves don't have one to turn to. Being torn between the culture of humans and their often extroverted nature and the elves reclusive and tight bound societies causes them to try to adapt to all situations. Often when one does not find a place to fit in, they try to adapt. This shows that half-elves have learned to become better speakers and find ways for others to like them and accept them. This is where I see the Charisma coming into play.

I will concede that the Con bonus is a little iffy, I believe it originally was planned because the two different races has caused them to be physically tougher, which I think is a cop-out. In place of that I think you could easily switch the Con over to Dex and this would start to make them more along the lines of what you are thinking.

In fact, a +2 Dex for elven nature, +2 Cha for social abilities of humans and adapting, and even changing the Diplomacy bonus to that of a human being able to choose another skill would be more towards the flavor of both the races. I would also stick with the current half-elf power because it runs with the theme of being between cultures and adapting to different things.

Does this start to make a bit more sense and possibly start changing any of the faults you have seen?

 

[Alisair Longreach]

In my campaign I give Half-Elves +2 to DEX and +2 to CHA. This optimizes their stats for the Rogue class rather than the Infernal Warlock class which I find fits their stereotype better.

 

[dammitbiscuit]

In my campaign I give Half-Elves +2 to DEX and +2 to CHA. This optimizes their stats for the Rogue class rather than the Infernal Warlock class which I find fits their stereotype better.

I've always found it extremely odd that the Half-Elf was in the PHB, and isn't terribly amazing for any PHB classes except for Warlock. They've been saying in the latest Design and Dev articles that it was all hyper-planned, and the PHB was supposed to touch all the bases, and certain race concepts weren't fully baked yet...

I'll believe em when they say it was all carefully planned. Fine. It seems like *bad* careful planning, though... Bard and Half-Elf were just made for each other, both in 4e rules and in flavor. As far as 3.5 translations go, it seems Orc or Gnome or even Aasimar would have been better for the PHB, and introducing half-elf with PHB2 so they feel less orphaned and lame.

 

[keterys]

Yeah, half-elf bard works.

I like the idea of half-elves getting an at-will from another class actually at-will.

 

[Omnifarious Grey]

Yeah, half-elf bard works.

I like the idea of half-elves getting an at-will from another class actually at-will.

It is interesting, but I feel that if they got an at-will as an at-will, then it would be a bit much really. I feel they probably thought about the power fairly well and didn't want it to get abusive.

 

[Falling Icicle]

Half-Elves are one of my least favorite aspects of 4e. Even their description says "Born heroes and leaders who combine the best features of humans and elves." Yet they have nothing in common with either parent! I also don't like how eladrin are left out. Why are half-elves possible but not half-eladrin? In the past, most half-elves had high elf (eladrin) parents. Pairings of humans and the very reculsive wood elves (now just elves) were quite rare. Here's how I would have made half-elves:

Ability Scores: +2 Dex, +2 to one other ability score of your choice
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Low-light

Languages: Common, Elven. I see no good reason why they should get more languages than anyone else.

Bonus At-Will power: Same as humans. I don't see any good reason why half-elves should all be partially-mutliclass characters. I think it makes much more sense for them to have a certain degree of human talent and drive instead.

Dual Heritage: You can take feats that have either human, elf or eladrin as their prerequisite (depening on your parent race), as well as those specifically for half-elves, as long as you meet any other requirements.

Fey Origin: Same as the Elf and Eladrin trait.

Trance: Same as the Eladrin ability. I prefer to give Elves this ability as well instead of their +1 perception "aura", as I despise such abilities.


I think this makes half-elves a good blend of humans and elves/eladrin. They get the best ability score selection and feat selection of any race, but they lack the human's bonus feat, skill and +1 defenses. Likewise, they don't have the skill bonuses, weapon proficiencies, fey step, speed, or elven accuracy of their other parent. This makes half-elves a good, versatile race, without making them a superior choice to humans or elves, IMO.