Improving your Rhino Hide

[0-hr]

If you have Rhino Hide armor (+2 Hide armor that doubles damage on a charge for a measly 5,165 gp) and you want to improve it (like to +3), what would it cost (assuming the DM allows such a thing)?

I'm confused about how you determine the price of weapons and armor that are not built using the "Plus system". If they had just made "Armor of Charging: Market Price: +3 bonus.", then it would be fine. But +2 armor with a powerful extra ability for 5,165gp? That don't make no sense.

 

[dcollins]

This is entirely a DM's call, of course. Note that Rhino Hide is 1,000 gp more expensive than "regular" +2 hide armor.

As DM in my campaign, I prefer to scale odd armor abilities like this to the "plus" scale, so that it plays balanced with other weapon/armor abilities. That is, I'd figure that rhino +2 ability is the value of a +2 enhancement x1.25 (5000 gp vs. normal 4,000 gp). I'd want +3 rhino hide to be 165 + 9000 x1.25 = 11,415 gp.

(Of course, as you note, the more pressing problem is that Rhino Hide is itself borderline broken in the first place, and is high on every munchkin's wish-list. I personally won't be placing it in my campaign -- if it was double on weaponless charges, or had an intrinsic weapon for charging [re: Demon Armor], it would be a lot more palatable.)

I'm sure I'll be in the minority on the main point. Most people will look at this and want to use non-armor pricing rules and just say the rhino-double-damage-on-charge ability is apparently worth 1,000 gp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

You know what annoys me?

Rhinos don't do double damage on a charge!

I think there should be an [Ex] ability that Rhinos and Dire Rhinos get, to explain why Rhino Hide armor works

-Hyp.

 

[Wolf72]

you could make 'charging' a special ability ... usable on natural armors only (leather, padded, hide, dhenuka from OA) at a market price modifer of +1

 

[Archer]

Hide is such a horrendous armor that they take that into account. Its studded leather with 2 less max dex, 3 higher check penalty and reduces your movement speed. A chain shirt +1 is clearly superior to hide +2 so I think the double damage on a charge is the entire value of the item, because it has no better defense than a non-magical breastplate for 200 gcs. The fact that you are further enchanting hide is enough of a cost penalty without adding 25% to the cost. Double damage on a charge has an effective market modifier of +2 based on the hide penalty. Sandals of tiger's leap give the same sort of ability for 3500 gcs. Where does the real value lie? Its up for the individual to decide.

 

[niteshade6]

I have to agree with archer, the main cost of rhino hide armor is the fact that it's hide armor. By the strictest letter of the rules it can't be improved, but if a DM wanted to allow it, it should probably cost 5,000 gold, which is difference between the price of +2 and +3.

 

[Iku Rex]

If you have Rhino Hide armor (+2 Hide armor that doubles damage on a charge for a measly 5,165 gp) and you want to improve it (like to +3), what would it cost (assuming the DM allows such a thing)?

+2 armor: +4000 gp
+3 armor: +9000 gp

+2 armor to +3 armor : 9000 gp - 4000 gp = +5000 gp

This has been confirmed by Monte Cook:

http://pub58.ezboard.com/fokayyourturnfrm13.showMessage?topicID=2158.topic

Q: <snip> Finally, would you allow an OC to have some item, such as a specialty item (rhino hide armor, rapier of puncturing, etc?), enhanced further? This is another reason I asked about the item above. If I wanted to have it further enhanced for a specific adventure, how would I go about pricing it? I thank you in advance for you help.

A: It's priced as a +2 sword with an additional ability. You can improve such items (rapier of puncturing, etc.) by looking at the bonus, figuring out how much it would take to add another bonus (or bonus equivalent) and adding that much to the entire price of the item.

Monte

 

[0-hr]

That makes sense (though Rhino Hide is still way too cheap). I thought maybe the cost would have to be doubled since you're packing more into the slot.

So if you wanted to take your Ki Straps (from S&F, adds 5 to your stunning saves) and turn them into +1 flaming weapons, would you just count them as a "+0 weapon with a special ability" and so only pay 8,000gp? It doesn't matter that you are stacking a weapon on top of what is basically a wonderous item?

And doesn't that method break down if someone says they want thier +1 flaming longsword to also grant them a +2 strength for only 2,000gp?

Or if you are saying that this method of pricing only applies to items that already have a "+" of some sort, what method would you use for my last two examples?

 

[Archer]

To add +2 strength to a weapon would cost 8,000, double the normal cost for +2 strength because it is slotless. This is totally different than the above method because the non-weapon power is already in the weapon/armor.

Ki straps are bracers and not even a weapon. I wouldn't treat a non-weapon as a weapon. They only enhance unarmed strikes with stunning attempts so I don't even see any compatibility.

 

[Iku Rex]

Or if you are saying that this method of pricing only applies to items that already have a "+" of some sort, what method would you use for my last two examples?

I'm not sure how these examples have anything to do with adding an additional enhancement bonus to a +2 armor...

In the first case you want to have the "Bracers of Striking" (from MoF), +1 flaming, added to your Ki Straps. Price: 32000 (16000x2). (It will no doubt be cheaper to add the "Ki" ability to some Bracers of Striking.)

In the second case you are merely talking about an unslotted +2 Str item - that's 8000 gp. (4000x2.)

(Note that while these two items are pretty straightforward to make, they are still "nonstandard". The +3 Rhino Hide on the other hand, doesn't require special permission from the DM in a "default" DnD game.)