D&D General In 2025 FR D&D should PCs any longer be wary of the 'evil' humanoids?

[Kobold Avenger]

Also, I suppose in the interest of full disclosure, I should note that I personally find the "misunderstood, good-hearted PC tiefling" trope (where "tiefling heritage" is used as a stand-in for whatever group the PLAYER identifies with but thinks everyone else "others" - which can be something as mundane as "nerd" in the 80's and 90's when being a nerd wasn't cool) to be even more widespread and therefore boring than humanocentrism, which is probably why I missed the change to tieflings... because I actively avoid them (does that make ME prejudiced against them? Perhaps, but it's mostly because I prefer to ask people not to actively try to drag their out-of-game baggage into my escapist hobby).

From 1994: "Tieflings live with both pride and shame of who and what they are. They have no culture of their own, and most are loners, which fits their background. Some slip into the edges of human society, becoming poets and artists who describe the corrupt fringes of the respectable world. Adventurous types often spend their years probing the unexplored edges of the multiverse, be it to survey strange lands or experiment in the forgotten niches of magical science."

"Human's don't trust tieflings (and deep inside they fear them), but they remain inexplicably fascinated by tieflings just the same. The plane-touched are often accused of secret plots and awful alliances - mostly without a shred of proof - because of who and what they are. A tiefling learns early that life is unfair and hard. His reaction is to fight back and never let his foes see the pain. Other people, even other tieflings, simply aren't viewed as allies and often are automatically considered enemies. A tiefling doesn't take a friend until he learns the measure of his companions, and even then he'll never fully trust anyone. 'I watch my own back,' is an old tiefling quip. They maintain no hereditary blood-feuds, but tieflings take care of themselves without any thought of others' problems."

That very much reads like someone who's considered an other.

And note that the original Planescape Campaign Setting didn't have the idea of the other Planetouched races just yet, but that was certainly implied they were connected to the lower planes like they were later, especially after the later Planescape products introduced the Aasimar and Genasi.

(Think "every PC drow is a Drizz't wannabe" fatigue... when every drow/tiefling wants to be the "exception" and it's gone on for decades so the "exception" has become the rule, it makes the very idea boring. I would actually find the idea of a player that wants to play a Cambion that has fully and unabashedly embraced their evil heritage and revels in their badness compelling at this point.)

Tieflings were never like Drow either. 2e very much had the idea that many Tieflings were either Good or Neutral in alignments (as they could be "any alignment except LG"), and that they were never an exception. Good and neutral Tieflings weren't rarities like good or neutral drow were. 3e may have pushed the "usually evil" thing, but in practice it was mostly ignored anyways.

 

[The Sigil]

In all D&D, yes, since WotC's goal is to sell the most dead trees, and apparently killing sacred cows (currently) goes against that goal. (What alignment are the cows, I wonder?)

Moo-tral Beef-full?

 

[Desdichado]

For what it’s worth, I think you’ve accurately assessed the direction the wind is blowing. Over time, the trend among D&D gamers is moving towards more cosmopolitan, more open to more fantastical species, and less open to the idea of any species being inherently evil, or even predominantly evil. The idea that one can assess a sentient being’s moral character by what group they were born into with any degree of reliability is only growing less popular over time.

In this scene, maybe. For now. In behavioral biology it's becoming much more popular. ~80% of our behavior is genetic. As anyone who breeds dogs, cats, horses, etc. already knew before it was repeatedly confirmed for people too.

In any case, trends are often assumed to be ongoing into perpetuity. In reality, that doesn't happen very often. Just because there's been a change in tastes for what people want their gaming to reflect doesn't mean that there will continue to be. The Overton Window for all kinds of questions like this has been all over the place in all kinds of entertainment media. RPGs are actually lagging behind movies, TV and video games in some ways, which are in turn lagging way behind the cultural zeitgeist overall.

 

[Scribe]

~80% of our behavior is genetic. As anyone who breeds dogs, cats, horses, etc. already knew before it was repeatedly confirmed for people too.

A lot of people find the consequences of that too uncomfortable to acknowledge.

 

[Remathilis]

Not without precedent:

(also, the Lady of Pain casually pursuing quarry while grinding a skateboard is badass.)

The quarry was on the skateboard, not her

The poster map from In The Cage: A Guide to Sigil

 

[Voadam]

Tieflings were never like Drow either. 2e very much had the idea that many Tieflings were either Good or Neutral in alignments (as they could be "any alignment except LG"), and that they were never an exception. Good and neutral Tieflings weren't rarities like good or neutral drow were. 3e may have pushed the "usually evil" thing, but in practice it was mostly ignored anyways.

I do not read 2e tieflings the same way. PC ones were probably good or neutral, but that was the same for any race (including drow) in 2e which discouraged evil PCs entirely.

2e drow PCs could be any alignment, 2e tieflings are the ones who cannot be LG as PCs. The Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix I monster entry for tieflings says their alignment is "Any Neutral or Evil" so outside of PCs the tendency is for them to be non-good. This is a little milder than the drow tendency to be Chaotic Evil.

Their reputation as described in 2e materials is less thoroughly evil than drow, but it is still a bad reputation overall.

Good ones could be said to be never an exception because there is explicitly no culture of tieflings for them to be an exception from the way there is for drow. They are described in the Planescape boxed set as outcasts, orphans of the planes, and loners. Good ones are still an exception from the reputation most hold of tieflings though.

 

[Charlaquin]

In this scene, maybe. For now. In behavioral biology it's becoming much more popular. ~80% of our behavior is genetic.

That isn’t what the article you linked says at all. It says genetics plays a role in a lot of human traits, and probably more of one than we think, which is an extremely nonspecific claim. The only specific claims it makes is that addiction is heritable (and the degree of heritability varies by substance), and that “several studies suggest” that intelligence is 50% heritable, while “a few suggest” it’s 80%. Setting aside the incredibly weasely phrasing of this claim, it’s basically meaningless because intelligence is far too complex to be summed up in a simple statement like “80% inherited.” This article certainly does not claim that 80% of human behavior is genetic.

As anyone who breeds dogs, cats, horses, etc. already knew before it was repeatedly confirmed for people too.

Of course, anyone who interacts with animals throughout their lives rather than just breeding them knows that’s an equally nonsense claim.

In any case, trends are often assumed to be ongoing into perpetuity. In reality, that doesn't happen very often. Just because there's been a change in tastes for what people want their gaming to reflect doesn't mean that there will continue to be. The Overton Window for all kinds of questions like this has been all over the place in all kinds of entertainment media. RPGs are actually lagging behind movies, TV and video games in some ways, which are in turn lagging way behind the cultural zeitgeist overall.

Eugenicist talking points are on the rise in a time when fascism is gaining in political power? Color me shocked.

 

[The Sigil]

Moo-tral Beef-full?

It also dawns on me that other acceptable answers may include “Cow-otic Moo-tral” and “Cow-otic Beef-full.”

 

[The Sigil]

Because some were affected by a person using warlock magic near their mom when she was pregnant.

To borrow a phrase… No, they weren’t.

The 2014 PHB, page 49 states “a pact struck generations ago infused the essence of Asmodeus … into their bloodline. … the result of an ancient sin, for which they and their children and their children’s children will always be held accountable.”

In the 2024 PHB, “Tiefling were either born in the outer planes or have ancestors who originated there.” More importantly, they “are linked by blood to a devil, demon, or other fiend.”

Call me crazy but “they, and their children, and their children’s children” and “linked by blood” sound a lot like something that can be shortened to the term I used… “descent.”

Based on the PHB canon, descent is involved. A warlock casting spells near a pregnant woman and turning her unborn child into a tiefling is your head canon.

But we are getting away from what is important here.

The important thing is:

Does a creature’s morality/alignment label arise out of its choices, or do its choices arise out of its morality/alignment label?

I would argue for outer planes denizens, which are literally created from ideals incarnated, the morality/alignment can be considered inborn.

In all other cases, the morality/alignment label arises out of the actions/choices of the creature, though the label is useful when PCs meet a mature creature since past decisions (which gave rise to the creature’s alignment label) are a good indicator of future behavior.

This does not mean behavior (and thus alignment) cannot later change. A paladin that has been lawful good for 20 years can fall a year later, and a villain that has been evil for 20 years can be redeemed. If you meet either 19 years into their career, though, giving them a LG or CE label as a shorthand for the DM is fine. Alignment, though it has recently fallen out of fashion, is a fine tool, but is not a straitjacket.

Also, even more important is taking about the alignment of sacred cows.

 

[Azzy]

It also dawns on me that other acceptable answers may include “Cow-otic Moo-tral” and “Cow-otic Beef-full.”

I think you're just milking it at this point.