D&D General In 2025 FR D&D should PCs any longer be wary of the 'evil' humanoids?

[The Firebird]

The problem with suggestions like this is that it rules out a lot of creativity. For instance, there are several "dirty trick" methods of fighting that won't work on zombies, ranging from blinding them with a bright flash to kneeing them in the groin. You can't flood a chamber to drown them before heading down to clean the place up. You can't force a morale check by bluffing them or killing their heavy hitter, etc.

Likewise, your classic (i.e. unintelligent) zombie is going to be a fairly boring foe, even if it's still a threatening one. Zombies don't set traps. Zombies don't use flanking tactics. Zombies aren't going to use the terrain to their advantage.

I want unambiguous enemies that can do all of those things, and on whom the aforementioned strategies can potentially work.

This. Above all, zombies are boring. Even an always evil but smart species can be negotiated with. There is the classic deal with a devil for a reason.

 

[Shades of Eternity]

I honestly like referring to opponents as 'the bad guy" because it takes out a lot of the racial coding. When I did my work, I made their function based on equipment and then slapped on a tweak based on species.

one last thing
I am a particular fan of Minotaur PCs, or as I like to call them, Chewbacca Cows.

Of Minotaurs and Men

I like Minotaurs. Not really a surprise for many. I'm a large man and Minotaurs always struck a cord. They have a mythological pedigree...

breadthofpopsanity.blogspot.com

 

[Umbran]

Yah, I guess. And in other thread I was also told that having to make meaningful decisions is tedious and exhausting to the players...

That is unfair and condescending.

 

[Staffan]

Well, I guess you can always have nazis and their analogues. Stormtroopers of an evil tyrant, evil cultists, etc.

Come to think of it, in retrospect it was probably a mistake to push various FR factions back in early 5e as player options for organized play, particularly the Zhentarim. They've generally been the go-to human-ish villains of the Realms in the past.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

That is unfair and condescending.

What was unfair about it? It was literally said in the railroad thread, and here you said people "want to be able to just punch people in the face without worrying about it so much in their entertainment game." Your words, not mine. I was just a bit taken a back by similar sentiment expressed in two different threads, and personally I think that one perhaps should have to think even a little bit if taking a life is warranted, even in fiction.

 

[TiQuinn]

Come to think of it, in retrospect it was probably a mistake to push various FR factions back in early 5e as player options for organized play, particularly the Zhentarim. They've generally been the go-to human-ish villains of the Realms in the past.

Agreed. For me, if I want a monster or faction to be evil, that removes them as a PC option. They’re the DM’s device in that case.

 

[TiQuinn]

What was unfair about it? It was literally said in the railroad thread, and here you said people "want to be able to just punch people in the face without worrying about it so much in their entertainment game." Your words, not mine. I was just a bit taken a back by similar sentiment expressed in two different threads, and personally I think that one perhaps should have to think even a little bit if taking a life is warranted, even in fiction.

Well that’s the problem with those threads, frankly. I’ve not participated in that thread aside from a joke comment but I wouldn’t want someone’s comment there to represent my stance on the topic.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Well that’s the problem with those threads, frankly. I’ve not participated in that thread aside from a joke comment but I wouldn’t want someone’s comment there to represent my stance on the topic.

Fair enough. Let's focus on what was said in this thread.

Is it fair to say that some people feel that they need clearly telegraphed enemies that can be slaughtered without second though, like the Doomguy gunning down demons?

Because, whilst there certainly can be situations where the enemies are just pretty unquestionably deserving it, I don't think it is too much to ask this to be telegraphed by the situation, by what these people have done and are about to do, rather than by their mere species or appearance.

Furthermore, I think that if we are to have a game where characters feel like real people with real feelings and real morals, then I don't think violence needs to be completely guilt free. Like even if it might be necessary and justified in the situations good people probably should not solely feel unfiltered joy when killing sentient beings.

 

[TiQuinn]

Fair enough. Let's focus on what was said in this thread.

Is it fair to say that some people feel that they need clearly telegraphed enemies that can be slaughtered without second though, like the Doomguy gunning down demons?

Because, whilst there certainly can be situations where the enemies are just pretty unquestionably deserving it, I don't think it is too much to ask this to be telegraphed by the situation, by what these people have done and are about to do, rather than by their mere species or appearance.

Furthermore, I think that if we are to have a game where characters feel like real people with real feelings and real morals, then I don't think violence needs to be completely guilt free. Like even if it might be necessary and justified in the situations good people probably should not solely feel unfiltered joy when killing sentient beings.

I agree, and I don’t think it’s a heavy lift. If I think cultists in a fantasy setting, I think of dark rituals to appease some god or demon that typically involves sacrificing some intelligent being, or spreading disease or something similar. It’s not difficult to add and IMO, would be part of any well designed adventure regardless. I think/hope we’ve moved well past the trope that killing defenseless monsters is not a condonable thing, and if I were to play something like Keep on the Borderlands again, I’d immediately remove the portions that involve that in favor of anything else, or if I left it in, that would change those encounters accordingly. Luckily, my group is not the kind to launch into combat automatically because several players like the parley, banter and stealth approaches as well.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't know that's what they feel they need.

What I have seen stated is not that they need to have always-evil things to have conflict. It is that they want conflict and its resolution to be simple, unambiguous, and stress-relieving. The real world is complex, and nuanced, so they want to be able to just punch people n the face without worrying about it so much in their entertainment game.

This is why so many bad guy groups in fiction are patterned after the Nazi Party.