D&D General In 2025 FR D&D should PCs any longer be wary of the 'evil' humanoids?

[Remathilis]

I don't own the 2024 MM or anything written by WotC after it, but my understanding is that while 2024 MM humanoid NPC stat blocks are written to be explicitly of any alignment and non humanoid type monster stat blocks have default alignments specified in the MM entry the difference between humanoids and nonhumanoids on alignment is not explicit for the difference in type, just in practice from what's been put out in the MM.

Is there an explicit discussion about the nonhumanoids turning into humanoids or explicitly laying out the alignment issue for nonhumanoids being different than for humanoids?

Jermey said in the video about aberrations that gith who spent time away from the planes and lived on the material plane long enough (generations, not in ones lifetime) became humanoids and got the abilities of the pc species rather than the abilities in the Monster Manual (and were aberrations). He insinuated that was true of all PC species whose type differed from MotM to MM. Now none of that is stated in the MM (aside from a reference in the lizardfolk section) but we also haven't had any new species that were formally monsters be reprinted yet. It's possible that the PC goblin species will be fey if it gets reprinted or the giths be aberrations, but for now the take is that if you're a PC goblin, your from a different branch of goblin than the MM goblin.

 

[Lord Irongron]

No need really, you do not have to abandon things from prior editions at all, just do not follow the crowd and do what you want at your own table.

A setting where Teifling for example are 'beloved and accepted across the multiverse' has lost the plot.

Unfortunately in this case my 'table' is an online server with hundreds playing at any one time, and a large team of volunteer DMs running events and ensuring rules and broader RP expectations are adhered to, and therein lies the problem; new folk come through every day, and their expectations of the Forgotten Realms are sometimes wildly different to the older players, for whom a 'monster' walking into a tavern is akin to one of the Nazgul popping by the Shire for second breakfast.

And it's not just players - DMs, depending on their generation may feel differently about this too.

As the years roll on it increasingly feels like it's a lot of greybeards shouting 'NO! IT ISN'T HOW WE DID IT IN OUR DAY!'

I personally have the feeling that beyond the post spellplague timeline, or the D&D edition something quite fundamental has changed in regard how most fans like to play the game, and sooner or later I have to adapt to that.

And rather than setting a bomb off in my own forums/discord by raising the topic I thought this would be an ideal place to get a feeling for just how the larger fandom felt about it.

And thanks so much for all the replies!

 

[Desdichado]

I haven't the foggiest idea what "2025 FR D&D" players should do, but my players should be wary of pretty much everyone they meet. And yes, there are plenty of evil—not with scare quotes—humanoids for them to run in to.

 

[Scribe]

Unfortunately in this case my 'table' is an online server with hundreds playing at any one time, and a large team of volunteer DMs running events and ensuring rules and broader RP expectations are adhered to, and therein lies the problem; new folk come through every day, and their expectations of the Forgotten Realms are sometimes wildly different to the older players, for whom a 'monster' walking into a tavern is akin to one of the Nazgul popping by the Shire for second breakfast.

And it's not just players - DMs, depending on their generation may feel differently about this too.

As the years roll on it increasingly feels like it's a lot of greybeards shouting 'NO! IT ISN'T HOW WE DID IT IN OUR DAY!'

I personally have the feeling that beyond the post spellplague timeline, or the D&D edition something quite fundamental has changed in regard how most fans like to play the game, and sooner or later I have to adapt to that.

And rather than setting a bomb off in my own forums/discord by raising the topic I thought this would be an ideal place to get a feeling for just how the larger fandom felt about it.

And thanks so much for all the replies!

Ah, in that case yes, its trying to hold back the tide. Especially if you are living in the D&D space. If you are going to keep with the current edition, you are playing heroic hero's out to do mighty deeds, regardless of your ancestry choice, and thats about it.

 

[Charlaquin]

Unfortunately in this case my 'table' is an online server with hundreds playing at any one time, and a large team of volunteer DMs running events and ensuring rules and broader RP expectations are adhered to, and therein lies the problem; new folk come through every day, and their expectations of the Forgotten Realms are sometimes wildly different to the older players, for whom a 'monster' walking into a tavern is akin to one of the Nazgul popping by the Shire for second breakfast.

And it's not just players - DMs, depending on their generation may feel differently about this too.

As the years roll on it increasingly feels like it's a lot of greybeards shouting 'NO! IT ISN'T HOW WE DID IT IN OUR DAY!'

I personally have the feeling that beyond the post spellplague timeline, or the D&D edition something quite fundamental has changed in regard how most fans like to play the game, and sooner or later I have to adapt to that.

And rather than setting a bomb off in my own forums/discord by raising the topic I thought this would be an ideal place to get a feeling for just how the larger fandom felt about it.

And thanks so much for all the replies!

If this community is any indication of how the broader D&D community feels, then it’s a pretty stark divide. The subject of evil orcs may as well substitute for Goodwin’s Law here. The discussion In this thread has so far been very cordial, but people have very strong opinions on this matter in both directions. For what it’s worth, I think you’ve accurately assessed the direction the wind is blowing. Over time, the trend among D&D gamers is moving towards more cosmopolitan, more open to more fantastical species, and less open to the idea of any species being inherently evil, or even predominantly evil. The idea that one can assess a sentient being’s moral character by what group they were born into with any degree of reliability is only growing less popular over time.

Also, side note- the idea of Tieflings being among the “evil species” is particularly strange to me. They’ve been a core PC option in the player’s handbook for almost twenty years now, across two full editions and whatever the 5e 2014 to 5e 2024 transition was, and as far as I know they’ve never actually been evil. I mean, their whole schtick is being outcast and marginalized because of their fiendish appearance despite not actually having any inborn tendency towards evil…

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Also, side note- the idea of Tieflings being among the “evil species” is particularly strange to me. They’ve been a core PC option in the player’s handbook for almost twenty years now, across two full editions and whatever the 5e 2014 to 5e 2024 transition was, and as far as I know they’ve never actually been evil. I mean, their whole schtick is being outcast and marginalized because of their fiendish appearance despite not actually having any inborn tendency towards evil…

Tieflings were a PC race before they ever got an entry in any Monstrous Compendium, they've been around since 2e back in 1994. They had an alignment restriction of "any alignment but Lawful Good" something that's been ignored in every edition since 2e.

 

[Clint_L]

Unfortunately in this case my 'table' is an online server with hundreds playing at any one time, and a large team of volunteer DMs running events and ensuring rules and broader RP expectations are adhered to, and therein lies the problem; new folk come through every day, and their expectations of the Forgotten Realms are sometimes wildly different to the older players, for whom a 'monster' walking into a tavern is akin to one of the Nazgul popping by the Shire for second breakfast.

And it's not just players - DMs, depending on their generation may feel differently about this too.

As the years roll on it increasingly feels like it's a lot of greybeards shouting 'NO! IT ISN'T HOW WE DID IT IN OUR DAY!'

I personally have the feeling that beyond the post spellplague timeline, or the D&D edition something quite fundamental has changed in regard how most fans like to play the game, and sooner or later I have to adapt to that.

And rather than setting a bomb off in my own forums/discord by raising the topic I thought this would be an ideal place to get a feeling for just how the larger fandom felt about it.

And thanks so much for all the replies!

Could you clarify a bit more? Is this a situation where players might wind up with different DMs, and you need to ensure that there is a more or less uniform experience? Or are they typically always with the same DM?

I'm wondering why each individual DM can't chat with their players to determine a consensus for that table. For example, at session 0 with new groups I always emphasize that I don't use alignments and players shouldn't assume that any creature is automatically evil and needs to be killed; they need to assess the situation.

 

[Shades of Eternity]

I always thought more people played PC Kobolds than Gnomes.
They are like little dragon dudes.