In a world where the quadratic wizard could exist, the quadratic wizard wouldn't...

[Janx]

Personally, I have yet to comprehend how a high level wizard could take out a small army, much less a large one.

There far too much hyperbole involved in this claim, IMHO. And perhaps not a bit of class warfare (as shown by that last comment)

People shouldn't focus on what others have and get jealous, it's not very productive.

When people lack a resource that they think they need, and they see some other guy has it, it's not just jealousy, it's a need for that resource based on the imbalance.


It's not just a rich people vs. poor people thing. Warlords in Africa hold power over their subjects. That guy in Cuba seems to be doing alright for himself. Stalin had a pretty good run.

People in power tend to stay in power. People subjugated under them seem to have difficulty changing it or having the will to risk everything to attempt changing it.

some people come to tyranical power with no problem or opposition (and are even promoted to such positions). Others make a grab for that power and are swatted down.

Results are mixed on whether any one wizard will be able to make a grab for power and keep it. For a variety of reasons.

 

[WayneLigon]

If wizards can ascend to "godlike" power, then they would constantly be hunted down and either regulated or eliminated. It doesn't make sense for all of the PC races to let a small subset hold exponential power over the vast majority.

You might as well say that it doesn't make sense for the majority of the people to allow rich people to have more stuff than them, or allow governments or police to have the broad powers they have. The rich got rich by being, say, smarter, luckier or more ruthless than the people around them. The first thing the first cave man leader ever did? Made sure people were incapable of tearing him down.

Revolution would work, eventually, because eventually every power base becomes corrupt or complacent enough to be replaced. It certainly would not be easy, though. A group of even moderate-level wizards is a force to truly be feared and most normal people simply cannot oppose them with much chance of success unless they're just willing to throw waves of minions at them until they run out of spells, scrolls, wand charges, items, etc.

In a world where wizards existed, they would soon be the rulers unless there was pressing need for them not to be so. In most games I've run, I've assumed most wizards really are not interested much in 'ruling the world' because that distracts you from important things like spell research, natural philosophy, or perfecting your craft. They just don't have the temperament for it.

Sorcerers on the other hand, make fantastic political figures. High charisma, no need or desire to be bogged down in study and research, able to outcast any wizard in the short-run: they are the ones you need to be worried about.

 

[Ariosto]

In my experience, when the Original/Advanced/Basic rules are applied without 'nerfing' and 'fudging', MUs tend to die with a frquency that accelerates by level when they confront rival peers.

 

[Rogue Agent]

If wizards can ascend to "godlike" power, then they would constantly be hunted down and either regulated or eliminated. It doesn't make sense for all of the PC races to let a small subset hold exponential power over the vast majority.

This would happen for the same reason that billionaires are constantly hunted down and either regulated or eliminated in the real world.

(This doesn't happen in the real world, of course, because billionaires have access to dominate person spells.)

 

[jshaft37]

Being rich (or having the skills to get rich, eg great athlete, actor/artist, business acumen) is NOT equivalent to having magical powers. While being born into wealth, having great luck, or a skill more than a standard deviation above the norm is certainly advantageous, it is not the same as possessing powers not available to other humans.

 

[Kalis]

Being rich (or having the skills to get rich, eg great athlete, actor/artist, business acumen) is NOT equivalent to having magical powers. While being born into wealth, having great luck, or a skill more than a standard deviation above the norm is certainly advantageous, it is not the same as possessing powers not available to other humans.

Generally though, you can only burn or otherwise persecute people for having magic powers if they have no actual magic powers or their magic powers are useless. If the local inquisition is trying to get a lynching going because Vilania is a witch, the second she actually summons a powerful demon. The interaction becomes less "Burn the witch" and more "Please don't kill us".

If the inquisition wants to burn somebody, but the entire town tells them that the person delivers sevenfold the vengeance on any attack, the townspeople are more likely to turn on the inquisition, because getting wizard angry is the last thing they want.

Hunting down wizards is also a sure way to ensure that any wizard around is really high level from all wizard-hunters he killed, and antagonistic towards the powerbase that sent soldiers after him.

 

[wingsandsword]

Being rich (or having the skills to get rich, eg great athlete, actor/artist, business acumen) is NOT equivalent to having magical powers. While being born into wealth, having great luck, or a skill more than a standard deviation above the norm is certainly advantageous, it is not the same as possessing powers not available to other humans.

In a D&D world, it is.

Wizardry is a skill that is trained, just like any other.

Sorcery may be innate, Divine magic may be favor from On High, but being a Wizard comes from hitting the spellbooks and textbooks.

Anybody with an INT of 11 (a person on the high side of average) can learn 1st level spells, that means a Magic Missile that can kill a typical commoner dead in one hit from hundreds of feet away with no ability to defend oneself. . .as long as they've trained how to do it.

Any somewhat bright person you might find in any classroom, like an INT of 15, can learn spells that can wreck a small town easily: (Overland Flight, Greater Invisibility, Stoneskin, as prep magic, attack with 3 fireballs, 5 flaming spheres, and 5 volleys of Magic Missile (each one taking down 5 commoners). Lots of random fires started in town, people dropping dead. Might not kill the entire town or reduce it to rubble, but it's a very effective "don't mess with me" when he takes down a few dozen people and a couple of buildings from complete safety.

If he wants to sacrifice the Overland Flight and the stand-off safety that provides, he could attack with Cloudkill instead and really up the body count.

That's a 9th level Wizard with a 15 INT able to maul a town. Somebody who is bright, but not a genius, and somebody who has trained for much of their adult life and notably skilled and enough to have a local reputation, but not one of the big movers & shakers in the world. . . and that's assuming he's going for blasting magic and not using Charm spells and Illusions to undermine the town and people not know about it until it's all over.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Let's also not forget that in a world with gods who can walk the prime plane, demons, devils, angels, dragons, liches, mind flayers etc. etc... even the best wizards are pretty weak in comparison.

Wizards might be able to lord over the others of their race... but they certainly are not the end-all-and-be-all of power in pretty much any campaign world.

There's always a bigger fish.

I'm surprised this thread has gone this long with only one mention to an important point:

-There is more to the world than just human(oids).

Much of this discussion is "Why would the common humans be ok with the powerful humans?" But in a world that contains MONSTERS, animalistic to massively intelligent, having powerful human(oids) keep the rest of the population safe from being dominated by Giants, Demons, Rakshasa, Drow, Illithids, Evil Dragons, Dopplegangers... the list goes on, of the other creatures that really would like to dominate the majority of the world.

While it might be inconvienent to keep the Mad Wizard around because of how he disturbs the local commoner populace, the absence of such a Wizard means the Monsters run a muck.

 

[prosfilaes]

Being rich (or having the skills to get rich, eg great athlete, actor/artist, business acumen) is NOT equivalent to having magical powers. While being born into wealth, having great luck, or a skill more than a standard deviation above the norm is certainly advantageous, it is not the same as possessing powers not available to other humans.

Possessing powers like what? Being able to go places other can't, like to another plane ... or into space? Being able to influence people, like with charm person ... or buyouts or advertising or campaign donations? Even in a D&D world, a wizard doesn't have the level of power a king does. If the king does not have his own clerics and wizards, he might be able to take it, but that doesn't mean the churches and the nobility are just going to smile on you. There is a reason that most feudal lords had justifications of legitimacy; people are much faster to support "the Rightful Lord" instead of some warlord or usurper, and would-be warlords and usurpers know that.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

So, in a world where the quadratic wizard might exist he wouldn't be allowed to exist?

In a world where someone like Sauron might come to power (several times!) to enslave all of the world he wouldn't be allowed to get beyond a mere apprentice?

In a world where a dragon might lay waste to an entire city he just wouldn't be allowed to?

In a world where a thief might steal the crown jewels he just wouldn't be allowed to?

In a world containing people of Good Alignment, or merely those who respect a basic right to exist, a wizard who has done nothing more than be born and learn wizardry would be gleefully, willingly murdered by those same people just on general principles? General principles of WHAT exactly?

Sorry. I don't buy the premise for even a second except as the basis for a VERY unique campaign - probably one where all the PC's actually have to survive as quadratic spellcasters.